DG Social media (warning: the lack of BBQ talk is disappointing)

[SaROCaM]

Well, if one third of her followers buy one disc from Innova at $18 then that's nearly $350,000 in disc sales. If half of them buy just one of her tour series discs for $20 then that's over half a million dollars in disc sales.

Maybe a third or half of her followers buying discs might be a pipe dream but I have to think some percentage of them will buy a disc and some percentage of them might buy two or three discs so I'd almost be willing to bet that the total dollar amount of disc sales from having her on the team will likely well exceed what they are paying her.

About a year ago I heard from some social media person that a "good" amount of engagement (likes, comments, shares, etc.) is around 10%. It is a lot easier to get someone to hit a like button than it is to buy a disc, so the number of followers buying discs may be well below that.

Of course, those were general guidelines. Maybe followers in a niche such as disc golf are more likely to buy discs compared to how likely the general public engages with influencers they follow.

 

[araytx]

Because Valerie has less than 10K follower on instagram and Kona has 55.2K.

Literally 5.5x as many eyes have the potential to see what Kona says vs Valerie. Sponsorship contracts are just another form of marketing. You're not going to spend $125K a year on an advertisement in the back of an alley if you can get one on a main street billboard for the same price, even if the billboard might be slightly "worse."

^^^^gets it.

How was the third NIL deal in college sports on day 1 made by two twins that play women's basketball at Fresno St.?

the answer is obvious.

Yes but you NEED to be on a filmed card to be seen as a pro player not just a social media star, , ,can Kona do that in 2022?

disagree. wholeheartedly. Simon increased his without being on film all the time last year. How? social media.

 

[araytx]

And I still go back to the fampus Mark Cuban story.

When asked by a high school student during one of his talks, "Mr. Cuban how do you decide how much to pay for a product?", Cuban replied "you charge every cent they'll pay at that time."

He then went on to explain the Beanie Babies and Cabbage Patch Dolls as examples.

In sports players get overpaid contracts all the time -- if that's what you think. Clearly the club didn't think it was overpaying (in most cases). Most every contract is based upon what you "HAVE DONE" (in the recent past), not what you are "GOING TO DO" in the future.

 

[Cgkdisc]

The message for teens, or anyone for that matter, eventually planning to seek sponsorship is to prioritize boosting your media presence and viewership over learning to throw farther and putt better.

 

[ray1970]

The message for teens, or anyone for that matter, eventually planning to seek sponsorship is to prioritize boosting your media presence and viewership over learning to throw farther and putt better.

While I'm assuming this was meant with some cynicism or sarcasm, I'm afraid in today's day and age there is actually some truth to this.

 

[Monkeypaws]

This thread: contract law, marketing 101, gender, with a smattering of disc golf thrown in.

 

[DanJon]

This matters too:

Estonian population - 1.331 million (2020)

US pop - 329.5 million (2020)

The EU has almost 450 million people.

Guess where Kristin lives?

 

[Cgkdisc]

While I'm assuming this was meant with some cynicism or sarcasm, I'm afraid in today's day and age there is actually some truth to this.

The only reason any players "should" earn incrementally more than just winning entry fees from other pros in their division is if they generate even more income for others whether it be for employers, sponsors, video teams, promoters or TD teams (notice who's not earning reasonable money yet?). The pros' tools to do this are social media/ads, being educational, funding foundations/charity work, being entertaining on camera, doing clinics in person, oh, and possibly being the best MPO/FPO players which is not a requirement if the other items mentioned are strong.

To enhance the potential for pros to achieve some of these goals, I believe their version of our game must evolve to become more entertaining on camera, even if it diverges from the rec game. How to do that deserves a separate thread that veers the opposite direction from introducing narrower baskets.

 

[txmxer]

I think her social media and the fact that she seems to do well on camera definitely helps, but she also bumped her rating 20pts this year and you have to think they are banking on her not being a finished product.

She goes out there and gets to 970 using their discs, that is probably what they are hoping for.

Great point. Contracts are speculative instruments. Not payback for past success.

I think Kristin is the more sound choice from an investment standpoint, but Kona certainly appears on an upward trajectory.

In todays dollars, 125k per year is not an insane amount of money in the real world. It's a living wage and certainly better than average.

Market size is a significant consideration as well. I believe Kristin is planning to tour in the States this year? I think she will be a big hit and I hope her contract provides for additional compensation as appropriate.

 

[txmxer]

Regarding Simon versus Ricky--Simon got his start by being a top tier player, add on world distance champ, and great social media personality. He's one of the more unique players in the sport and that allowed him to have a good year while out with injury.

His calendar is full and will be full because of his overall body of work. He gets injured, he could go in to the announcer booth easily.

Now take Brodie who has built a huge following before disc golf. If he stopped playing disc golf, I don't think he would have the option of doing video commentary for DGN, Jomez, etc.

 

[Ahildy13]

I believe Kristin is planning to tour in the States this year?

She's listed as going to the Memorial in March, but the only thing beyond that is Tyyni Open in July.

So there's potential for Waco, Texas States, Jonesboro, DDO, OTB, Portland, and maybe The Preserve in that window if she's staying stateside.

 

[TheOtherBill]

The EU has almost 450 million people.

Guess where Kristin lives?

In Estonia, I thought my post made that clear.

 

[txmxer]

She's listed as going to the Memorial in March, but the only thing beyond that is Tyyni Open in July.

So there's potential for Waco, Texas States, Jonesboro, DDO, OTB, Portland, and maybe The Preserve in that window if she's staying stateside.

The FPO should be primed to have a great year. This past year was more competitive than previous, just like in the MPO. Seeing more depth, with more variance in the names on the lead card will be good for the them.

 

[Tinkles]

People need to stop thinking about these endorsement deals like they are franchises. Innova is not the Yankees paying players for performance. They are more akin to titleist paying player to use the Prov1. Your performance only matters to them as to how it impacts your ability to sell their merchandise.

Ballpark didn't endorse Michael Jordan because he was the best at eating hot dogs. His marketing presence sold hot dogs. In his case his marketing presence was obviously significantly impacted by him being the GOAT but that's what Ballpark cares about. Aaron Rodgers isn't the best driver but state farm uses him to sell insurance. Brodie Smith isn't the best disc golfer but he has a broad reach and sells discs.

 

[seedlings]

People need to stop thinking about these endorsement deals like they are franchises. Innova is not the Yankees paying players for performance. They are more akin to titleist paying player to use the Prov1. Your performance only matters to them as to how it impacts your ability to sell their merchandise.

Ballpark didn't endorse Michael Jordan because he was the best at eating hot dogs. His marketing presence sold hot dogs. In his case his marketing presence was obviously significantly impacted by him being the GOAT but that's what Ballpark cares about. Aaron Rodgers isn't the best driver but state farm uses him to sell insurance. Brodie Smith isn't the best disc golfer but he has a broad reach and sells discs.

Innova probably doesn't need anyone's help selling discs, if you think about it.

 

[hartigan5279]

You have no argument if you have to resort to this kind of nonsense.

In case you didn't know, Kristin Tattar is a woman too, only a more proven female player.

Next....

She is potentially a more proven player, but that is not the most important thing to a disc golf company. Ultimately all a company cares about is how many discs and other merchandise can a player help sell. That's how they make their money. If a player is likable and that leads to a huge number of disc sales (similar to Sexton who is a top 10-15 player but not one of the absolute best) then that can be just as valuable, if not more to a company than a player that wins more but does not have the same fanfare.

Similar comparison at Innova would be Sexton and Calvin Heimburg. I don't think many people would argue that Calvin is right now the superior player, but I guarantee you that Sexton brings in a lot more money for Innova than Calvin does.

 

[Tinkles]

Innova probably doesn't need anyone's help selling discs, if you think about it.

I would disagree. The market is booming and all these manufacturers increased capacity and likely overhead including innova just through the closing of the discmania contract.

Short term thinking - Innova is fine - but the sport is growing and hitting new age and income demographics. In 5 years innova could have the rep that discraft had 4 years ago. They could be the old people brand. They could be the junky dx plastic only newbs buy at big box stores. They could be the MacGregor, Lynx, or even Nike of golf equipment. Brands can fall quickly. Growing market and you want to stay ahead of the curve.

 

[foxdawg10]

She is potentially a more proven player, but that is not the most important thing to a disc golf company. Ultimately all a company cares about is how many discs and other merchandise can a player help sell. That's how they make their money. If a player is likable and that leads to a huge number of disc sales (similar to Sexton who is a top 10-15 player but not one of the absolute best) then that can be just as valuable, if not more to a company than a player that wins more but does not have the same fanfare.

Similar comparison at Innova would be Sexton and Calvin Heimburg. I don't think many people would argue that Calvin is right now the superior player, but I guarantee you that Sexton brings in a lot more money for Innova than Calvin does.

Calvin has the higher rating right now, but it can be argued that Sexton has a more proven track record. Sexton finished 3rd at World's which was amazing. Hopefully Calvin finds a way to put it all together next season. I think they both sell a ton of discs.

I agree that it is all about how may discs someone can sell and it may have an element of performance, if the $125k per year has some performance incentives build in. I think Kristin and Kona are both likeable. I actually bought 2 Kona Emperors over the summer and donated them to local women's leagues for CTP's. What ever is happening now can only be good for the FPO division in the long run, all this discussion in just background noise compared to that.

The only reason i brought it up was Kona making such a point of comparing herself to Kristin in the press conference and not focusing on her own strengths.

 

[DanJon]

In Estonia, I thought my post made that clear.

Oh dang, sorry, didn't realize they only sold her discs in Estonia.

Or that she only played competitively in Estonia.

My apologies again.

 

[txmxer]

Oh dang, sorry, didn't realize they only sold her discs in Estonia.

Or that she only played competitively in Estonia.

My apologies again.

Population sizes aside, what's the size of the DG audience they are selling to? How many discs sell in the EU versus the North America?