Is this putt legal?

[Awkward Accountant]

So at my first tournament i kept getting called out by one joe about my putting. From my understanding it was legal.

When i am doing short putts, i putt and my back foot raises a bit, but i never step or move my front foot until the disc touches the bottom of the basket. After it hits the bottom of the basket, i step forward.......

Legal or nah

Disclaimer: im a noob but i try. Please dont tear into me for not knowing this

 

[txmxer]

depends.

I'm sure you've read the rules and what you describe seems compliant, but it's a real time judgement call. Can't evaluate that based on written description.

 

[Meillo]

For putts inside the circle you have to show balance, only after having done that you can step forward.

 

[ThrowaEnvy]

I used to do pretty much the same thing.. Basically balancing on only my front leg, as tempting and handy as it was to start stepping after chaining out I got in the habit of putting my back foot down again behind me, bending over and grabbing the mini. It removes all doubt, there is people that will call "foot faults" constantly just to screw with you and get in your head. They can only call you on it within the circle, if there is anything to call you for.

 

[oldmandiscer]

If you were still moving forward just slowly then stepping through I could see a possible complaint. It might be better to not step through anymore and do what Envy says, just put your back foot down and pick up your mini or disc. Then no questions can ever happen.

 

[Rastnav]

After it hits the bottom of the basket, i step forward.......

Since no one has clarified this, it's important to understand that the above has literally nothing to do with the rule about stance in the circle.

According to rule 806.01.B in the rules of disc golf:

After having released a putt, the player must demonstrate full control of balance behind the marker disc before advancing toward the target. A player who fails to do so has committed a stance violation and receives one penalty throw.

You can demonstrate balance while the disc is still in the air. You can fail to demonstrate balance and commit a violation long after the putt has come to rest.

You can also demonstrate balance without your rear foot ever coming back down, just by maintaining your position. In principle, your putt is completely legal.

 

[seedlings]

It sounds like you're reading that if I putt and show balance before the disc lands, then I can step in front of the lie before the disc lands.

 

[Rastnav]

It sounds like you're reading that if I putt and show balance before the disc lands, then I can step in front of the lie before the disc lands.

That is correct. AFAIK, you can putt from a straddle with a Gregg Barsby-esque slow high putt, bring your body to a stop, and then start to "walk the putt in" (celebrate the make) before it even hits the chains. The rule says nothing about the disc landing. The only thing that matters is demonstrating balance after the disc has been released.

That doesn't prevent people from misunderstanding or misinterpreting the rule, and it may be the wisest course of action, from a card mate perspective, to act as if you have to demonstrate balance after the disc comes to rest, but there is no requirement. If asked to second a stance violation on the green, I wouldn't care about the location of the disc, only about balance after release.

You will frequently see pros start to reach down and grab their mini before the disc is even in the chains, let alone at rest in the basket.

Conversely, if someone fell forward from an awkward lie/stance after their short 10 footer came to rest in the bottom of the basket, it would still be a stance violation.

 

[BogeyNoMore]

I used to do pretty much the same thing.. Basically balancing on only my front leg, as tempting and handy as it was to start stepping after chaining out I got in the habit of putting my back foot down again behind me, bending over and grabbing the mini. It removes all doubt, there is people that will call "foot faults" constantly just to screw with you and get in your head. They can only call you on it within the circle, if there is anything to call you for.

The underlined makes you bulletproof.

 

[ThrowaEnvy]

The underlined makes you bulletproof.

I Am Bulletproof, I'm Supaman muthaf###a

picking up the mini turned into a good move, I like putting my body into the putting. I played a round way back when a guy just kept trying to call violations, I polled the group (which sided with me) and told him to f off. Just a miserable dude to play with, he got in my head and messed with my round. If I play with him again I will get out my clock and call him on 30 seconds every chance I get.

....bitter much? Haha

 

[Meillo]

The underlined makes you bulletproof.

(Underlined was: ``putting my back foot down again behind me''.)

I disagree. Although in practice it usually is enough, it has nothing to do with the rule. The rule states that you have to demonstrate balance. If you're out of balance, putting your back foot down does not help anything. Imaging you standing on a hill and falling backwards while or after you putt, if you then naturally put your back foot down to regain balance but cannot achieve it, you've violated the rule. It does not matter which way you fall or if your feet are on the ground or in the air, the thing is: you have to demonstrate balance.

The motion of putting the back foot down and grabbing the mini before you walk towards the pin, is only a behavior that *likely* is only possible when you're balanced. But if you notice you're falling forward, then quickly putting the back foot down and stabilizing yourself with the hand on the ground when you grab the mini is also illegal.

The only thing that matters is that you demonstrate balance -- that's two parts: first having balance and second demonstrating it. It does not matter how you do it.

 

[sisyphus]

tiny technical clarification to the above: "...before advancing toward the target..."
feel free to fall backwards down that hill, if it flows away from the basket.

but you are correct: the rule does say you THEN still have to demonstrate balance.

 

[Rastnav]

(Underlined was: ``putting my back foot down again behind me''.)

I disagree. Although in practice it usually is enough, it has nothing to do with the rule. The rule states that you have to demonstrate balance. If you're out of balance, putting your back foot down does not help anything. Imaging you standing on a hill and falling backwards while or after you putt, if you then naturally put your back foot down to regain balance but cannot achieve it, you've violated the rule. It does not matter which way you fall or if your feet are on the ground or in the air, the thing is: you have to demonstrate balance.

The motion of putting the back foot down and grabbing the mini before you walk towards the pin, is only a behavior that *likely* is only possible when you're balanced. But if you notice you're falling forward, then quickly putting the back foot down and stabilizing yourself with the hand on the ground when you grab the mini is also illegal.

The only thing that matters is that you demonstrate balance -- that's two parts: first having balance and second demonstrating it. It does not matter how you do it.

Yes, it doesn't matter how you do it, all that matters is that you demonstrate balance before advancing past the lie.

In other words, the bolded part above isn't a violation. If you fall backwards (not advancing past the lie), you will then come to a point where you are demonstrating balance after coming to rest on your backside. This is perfectly legal.

Putting the back foot down, with full weight on it, after already being in a balanced position (i.e. the hypothetical we are considering), is a good way to show that you achieved balance. But, you are correct, doing a rear toe tap while falling forward doesn't in any way prevent a violation.

 

[Meillo]

In other words, the bolded part above isn't a violation. If you fall backwards (not advancing past the lie), you will then come to a point where you are demonstrating balance after coming to rest on your backside. This is perfectly legal.

Sometimes it's difficult do describe these things with words. Maybe we don't disagree at all.

The rules say:

After having released a putt, the player must demonstrate full control of balance behind the marker disc before advancing toward the target. A player who fails to do so has committed a stance violation and receives one penalty throw.

I interpreted ``behind the marker disc'' as being your stance. Thus if you fall backwards during your putt, roll over and then come to balance a few meters behind your lie, this is a stance violation, because you didn't demonstate full control of balance behind the marker disc. (It was farther away from the pin, but not in the stance you putted from.)

The typical example here is an uphill putt where you have a difficult and slippery stance on the hillside. The question is: Is a backwards falling putt allowed? I interpret the rules as the answer being no, because you have to demonstrate balance in that stance you've taken, with one foot directly behind the marker.

But please correct me if I understand this wrong. (Or if I understood you wrong.)


Edit: You can use your other leg to ensure balance as long as it is farther away from the target than your lie. But you cannot move the front foot away from your stance to get balance. This is what I mean.

 

[ThrowaEnvy]

I think we are all arguing the same point.

Falling putts are not allowed in the circle. Forward, backward or sideways.

The OP has a habit of moving forwards after the putt sinks, advancing past the marker, the perception may be stepping through it leaves their "maintaining balance" in question.

I say break the habit and stifle any debate or "foot fault harassment"

 

[BogeyNoMore]

My point is that if before you advance beyond your lie, your standing on both feet, you've demonstrated balance.

...assuming you're not floundering around while standing on both feet.

 

[Rastnav]

The rule says nothing about demonstrating balance while in contact with the lie. The particular rule simply adds a requirement that prevents follow through within the circle. That's it.

There are no "falling putts". That's not the rule. 806.01.B adds to the requirements in 802.07. 806.01.B does not mention lie, but only mentions "behind the marler disc". Anywhere behind the marker disc is a valid place to display balance, unless there is some clarification that I'm missing which is separate from the rules.

 

[Awkward Accountant]

Thanks for all the info. Yea i have been doing a falling putt and thinking it was legal as long as my foot stepped forward after the disc landed in the basket. Ill have to start practicing not doing that now.

 

[txmxer]

The rule says nothing about demonstrating balance while in contact with the lie. The particular rule simply adds a requirement that prevents follow through within the circle. That's it.

There are no "falling putts". That's not the rule. 806.01.B adds to the requirements in 802.07. 806.01.B does not mention lie, but only mentions "behind the marler disc". Anywhere behind the marker disc is a valid place to display balance, unless there is some clarification that I'm missing which is separate from the rules.

This is how I understand it.

 

[roblee]

The rules say:
I interpreted ``behind the marker disc'' as being your stance. Thus if you fall backwards during your putt, roll over and then come to balance a few meters behind your lie, this is a stance violation, because you didn't demonstate full control of balance behind the marker disc. (It was farther away from the pin, but not in the stance you putted from.)

But please correct me if I understand this wrong. (Or if I understood you wrong.)
.[/QUOTE

I interpret "behind the marker disc" as the infinite area behind the marker disc rather than "the area behind the marker disc where you took your stance". Being as simple as the #3 post by you. Putt uphill, fall backward, roll 200' downhill, get up, dust yourself off, all is good.