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[Innova] 1980's Innova discs questions

Ron720

Ron720

Newbie
Joined
Sep 21, 2015
Messages
22
Location
Jefferson, Oregon
Hi,
Being new to the sport only been playing about 6 months I've been spending a lot of time reading about the history of our sport. I really enjoy watching some of the older disc golf videos on youtube from 80's and 90's. I got addicted to buying many different molds over the summer and now have close to 100 discs. I know some of these discs are way to fast for me etc. The discs I enjoy throwing are the basic DX Aero, DX Aviar, DX XD, DX Stingray, DX Cobra, DX Roc and a DX Shark. I really get a kick out of teeing off with my Aero and watching it fly out 250 feet or so. I can also get 250 to 300 feet with my Singray and Cobra.

My understanding is that back in the day when the Eagle/Aero (1983-84) came about there was no drivers, putters, Mid's etc the Aero was a one disc does it all is that right? Or was the Aero marketed as a driver or putter? That brings me to my next question. The Aviar was it marketed as a putter back in the day? And what about the XD or should I say the Aviar XD. I noticed in some places the XD is described as a Aviar that is more driver like. Was the XD the first Innova disc marketed as a driver?
I find the XD is the easiest of the discs I listed to get out to around 300 feet with. It seems to resists turning over if I really power into it. I also find the XD to feel and fly like the Innova Colt.
What about the Roc and Sharks did they come onto the market as mid's? And from what information I have found it seems like the Stingray and Cobra where marketed as drivers.
 
Innova 1991

It's not from the 1980s or as early as some of the discs you have questions about but I thought you'd enjoy this - a 1991 Innova brochure. They had 17 discs in their lineup, all dx plastic I assume.

lastscan.jpg


lastscan1.jpg
 
Terms like midrange and putter didn't really exist to begin with. The Aero was the first modern golf disc and it was pretty much a "do it all" disc. The Aviar was the same, it was really designed to do pretty much everything. The XD was originally sold as the "Aviar XD" with the XD standing for extra distance so it was for a short period of time Innova's distance disc of choice.

The term "driver" came into common use when discs like the Eclipse and Stingray showed up; discs that you obviously wouldn't putt with. Discs that you now think of as Mids (Rocs, Sharks) were "short to medium drivers" or "medium to long drivers," stuff like that. I remember the Aviar and Phantom+ being called "all purpose" discs.

By the early 90's "putter" was a common designation and by the mid 90's "midrange" was commonly used. What was a midrange was never all that clear as the Stingray and Cobra were called "drivers" for a really long time after the Shark and Roc had become "midranges." I still call the Stingray a driver. It's just semantics; to me the Roc is a mid and the Viper is a driver, but I've always been able to throw a Roc farther than a Viper so...
 
Innova for a time stamped Rocs (pretty sure Sharks too) as 'multi purpose'. Is is a shame that they dropped that.
 
When we first saw the Aero and XD in Dallas around '84, they were both marketed to us as drivers. I still have both of the first ones I got. Like taking the Aero out for a spin now and again. I mainly used it like we use mids now. The XD wasn't as good off the tees as my venerable P-38's were, but it saw a lot of action. Only carried about 5-6 discs back then....one putter, a Gumbputt, the original one, and 3-4 drivers, mostly multiples to deal with a disc eating creek.:\ Things were a lot simpler back then.
 
Three Putt,hugheshilton and Butx1215
Thank you very much for this information.
I found something interesting on the link that hugheshilton posted. When you get to 1987 it says "The original Roc came out in 1987 and it was unique because it was the first attempt to put a bead on the rim in an attempt to stabilize the disc. All the pros loved it because it was stable for them into the wind. They didn't like it when it was changed the first time. The Roc went through many revisions through the years bringing it to what it is today. The Roc along with Aviar are still today two of the most prized discs in the sport". So this means back in the day the pros liked the original Roc (Classic Roc) better than the larger diameter ones?
Where the other Innova discs back in the 80's like the Hammer, Ace, Coupe etc pretty common molds back in day?
Another question I have is did the older late 70's early 80's disc like the Midnight Flyer, Supper Puppy and wham-o 86 softie and other Wham-o molds just disappear from the sport after the Eagle and Aviar and other new molds showed up? I know Wham-o got out of the Disc Golf market but where there molds still used much by the pro's and Am's by the mid to late 80's?
 
Bultx1215 said:
When we first saw the Aero and XD in Dallas around '84, they were both marketed to us as drivers. I still have both of the first ones I got. Like taking the Aero out for a spin now and again. I mainly used it like we use mids now. The XD wasn't as good off the tees as my venerable P-38's were, but it saw a lot of action. Only carried about 5-6 discs back then....one putter, a Gumbputt, the original one, and 3-4 drivers, mostly multiples to deal with a disc eating creek.:\ Things were a lot simpler back then.
Click to expand...

I had a few P-38's, and I found them flippy as could be. They must have lost stability as they made their way up north. The plastic was a hell of a lot tougher than DX though.

In '85, I was bagging two XD's, an Aviar, a Phantom, a Wally and a George of the Jungle stamped disc that may have been a Super Puppy. Watch out for that tree!
 
hugheshilton said:
Yep, I'm pretty sure they stamped Spiders that way too.
Click to expand...


I am pretty sure they still stamp the Spider that way. I was in Mountain High Sports the other day looking through their discs and they had a Spider which said Multi-purpose.
 
Ron720 said:
Three Putt,hugheshilton and Butx1215
Thank you very much for this information.
I found something interesting on the link that hugheshilton posted. When you get to 1987 it says "The original Roc came out in 1987 and it was unique because it was the first attempt to put a bead on the rim in an attempt to stabilize the disc. All the pros loved it because it was stable for them into the wind. They didn't like it when it was changed the first time. The Roc went through many revisions through the years bringing it to what it is today. The Roc along with Aviar are still today two of the most prized discs in the sport". So this means back in the day the pros liked the original Roc (Classic Roc) better than the larger diameter ones?
Click to expand...
Not the way I remember. When the large diameter Roc was released it took over for the smaller now Classic Roc.
Where the other Innova discs back in the 80's like the Hammer, Ace, Coupe etc pretty common molds back in day?
Click to expand...
Yes they were, I wore a few hammers out myself. I know many who used the Ace and Coupe
Another question I have is did the older late 70's early 80's disc like the Midnight Flyer, Supper Puppy and wham-o 86 softie and other Wham-o molds just disappear from the sport after the Eagle and Aviar and other new molds showed up? I know Wham-o got out of the Disc Golf market but where there molds still used much by the pro's and Am's by the mid to late 80's?
Click to expand...
The 86 mold had been out when I started in '87, in '88 the 86 Softie was released.
 
Thanks for the replies great information.
Went out to my local course today a played a couple of rounds with my older molds. It was fun I was playing with couple of guys. One guy has been playing about 2 years the other 5 or so years. After playing the first 3 holes one of the guys asked me what is that disc you keep teeing off with. I held my DX Stingray and both of them where like hmm.... dude that is a mid range disc. I just laughed and said yes but back in the day it was a driver. They asked me that because I was driving as far as them most of the time. They where teeing off with discs like Westside hatchet, Beast, TeeBird, MVP Wave etc. I would guess our drives where around 300 to 350 feet most of the time. I would just throw my Stingray out on a big hyzer flip and it would sail out there always landing within about 30 feet from their discs. I only felt I could not really keep up was on the couple big open holes where they could throw tthe speed 13 and 14 discs 400 feet plus. Also the wind is a issue with my Stingray's and Cobra's so for that I use a DX Viper it seems to do good in the wind.
 
Ron720 said:
Thanks for the replies great information.
Went out to my local course today a played a couple of rounds with my older molds. It was fun I was playing with couple of guys. One guy has been playing about 2 years the other 5 or so years. After playing the first 3 holes one of the guys asked me what is that disc you keep teeing off with. I held my DX Stingray and both of them where like hmm.... dude that is a mid range disc. I just laughed and said yes but back in the day it was a driver. They asked me that because I was driving as far as them most of the time. They where teeing off with discs like Westside hatchet, Beast, TeeBird, MVP Wave etc. I would guess our drives where around 300 to 350 feet most of the time. I would just throw my Stingray out on a big hyzer flip and it would sail out there always landing within about 30 feet from their discs. I only felt I could not really keep up was on the couple big open holes where they could throw tthe speed 13 and 14 discs 400 feet plus. Also the wind is a issue with my Stingray's and Cobra's so for that I use a DX Viper it seems to do good in the wind.
Click to expand...

You might enjoy these two videos of Paul McBeth (4x and current world champion) and a friend playing a round "90's style" with all older molds. It shows you what a real pro can do with those older discs.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qLiOsUkU-Vs

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bi82PJD9fzc
 
Ron720 said:
Three Putt,hugheshilton and Butx1215
Thank you very much for this information.
I found something interesting on the link that hugheshilton posted. When you get to 1987 it says "The original Roc came out in 1987 and it was unique because it was the first attempt to put a bead on the rim in an attempt to stabilize the disc. All the pros loved it because it was stable for them into the wind. They didn't like it when it was changed the first time. The Roc went through many revisions through the years bringing it to what it is today. The Roc along with Aviar are still today two of the most prized discs in the sport". So this means back in the day the pros liked the original Roc (Classic Roc) better than the larger diameter ones?

That would be a hard question to answer as it would be individual preference, but the "goonie bird" Roc (the term we used when they stopped using the wings and rings stamp) was the go-to disc in the early 90's. Nobody complained about the older Roc being better, and it was OOP ("Classic" Roc didn't come back into production until '95 so if you wanted an old Roc then you were SOL.) The change no one liked was the San Marino to Ontario switch. Everybody was looking for old San Marinos then.

Where the other Innova discs back in the 80's like the Hammer, Ace, Coupe etc pretty common molds back in day?

If you were someplace with a disc golf course they were. Golf discs in general were not nearly as common as they are now, so the production numbers/availability was a lot less than we are used to now. But once you were on the course, sure.

Another question I have is did the older late 70's early 80's disc like the Midnight Flyer, Supper Puppy and wham-o 86 softie and other Wham-o molds just disappear from the sport after the Eagle and Aviar and other new molds showed up? I know Wham-o got out of the Disc Golf market but where there molds still used much by the pro's and Am's by the mid to late 80's?

The big lids like Midnight Flyers cleared out quickly. They were already dinosaurs, though. My understanding is that the small-diameter Super Puppies and Kitty Hawks had already taken a big dent out out the uses of those discs. The beveled discs just finished them off. Some old players still used them for situational things, but they were pretty uncommon.

The 86 is a beveled edge disc. Wham-O had a line of actual golf discs with numbers. 44, 77, 78, 86, 91. Most of them were made by Innova with rings added to the top (44 was a Viper, 77 was a Stingray, 78 was a Cobra.) The 86 was a unique mold not made by Innova, but it was still a modern, beveled edge disc. 86 Softies were pretty common through the 90's.
Click to expand...
I think a lot of the answers you will get on disc use are going to be regional. I ran into a guy from California in Illinois in the mid '00's who kinda freaked out over the "crazy" discs I had. They were Gateway discs. He lived in SoCal, played regularly and had never seen a Wizard. Wizards were all over the midwest by then. Sometimes what you see and what you throw just depends on where you are.
 
I was looking up discs on http://discgolfsweden.se/ and I see the Cobra came out in 1988 then it was retooled in 1990. I looked up the Viper and I see it came out in 1992. I knew the Viper came out in the early 90's. Did the Viper pretty much take over as the popular driver? I have a DX Viper and I like the feel of it in my hand. I have also handled a Discraft ESP Cyclone and I liked the feel of it also. I didn't get to throw the Cyclone is it anything like the Viper? I know the Cyclone is also a 90's disc. Also I was just looking at my XD and I noticed its has a SAN MARINO stamp on the underside of the flight plate. I just bought this disc from a small disc golf shop a few days ago. It was brand new never thrown and I also noticed the DX plastic is not the same as on my new Colt or my new DX Aero those feel gummy or something. My XD feels stiffer more like my 12x KC Pro Avair.
 
Ron720 said:
Hi,

My understanding is that back in the day when the Eagle/Aero (1983-84) came about there was no drivers, putters, Mid's etc the Aero was a one disc does it all is that right? Or was the Aero marketed as a driver or putter? That brings me to my next question. The Aviar was it marketed as a putter back in the day? And what about the XD or should I say the Aviar XD. I noticed in some places the XD is described as a Aviar that is more driver like. Was the XD the first Innova disc marketed as a driver?
I find the XD is the easiest of the discs I listed to get out to around 300 feet with. It seems to resists turning over if I really power into it. I also find the XD to feel and fly like the Innova Colt.
What about the Roc and Sharks did they come onto the market as mid's? And from what information I have found it seems like the Stingray and Cobra where marketed as drivers.
Click to expand...

When I took up the game, I played (and friends who started at the same time) using Wham-O lids because there was no place locally to buy golf discs. We got a course in our city park due to efforts by disc golfers in a nearby community, so we had that and no local disc dealers. We had to buy from visiting golfers or at tournaments, where somebody would sell stock from the trunk of their car. My first disc was a used XD, bought from a visiting player from elsewhere.

We didn't think in terms of mids that I recall, though we did sort out discs better for putting from those better for driving and approaches. Any disc that wasn't viewed as a putter was by default a driver. My XD, then Ace (and my brother's Phantom and Deuce) worked well for us. When the Stingray came out, it was the hot, new driver in our area, adding distance to everybody's drives. Adding in the Shark then Cobra and so on, we still viewed them all as simply drivers because they weren't putters (like the Aero or Powerdrive or such). We preferred some for longer shots than others. It was when the Eclipse arrived that I started thinking of it as a long driver and others discs as short drivers or midranges, which seemed to be a common notion among others, too.
 
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