blackandwhite
Double Eagle Member
not gonna read all the posts...however crying about it wont do anything. learn a flick or get the bh better, its as easy as that
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2 wrongs= right?
- Thread starter Innovadude
- Start date
I don't think its just you giles, some I understand, but others just appear to be incoherent rants
phishbrained
Par Member
I agree with blackandwhite, learn a side arm or work over a heavily anhyzered rhbackhand and it will stay going to the right for you. Playing a course that makes you try new shots only improves your game. If every hole was a short dogleg to the left you'd never improve or be challenged.
The point isn't fear of a challenge. The point is that there is less of a challenge for those who throw with a certain hand. The issue is fairness.
What if your left-handed friend only threw side-arm and you were right handed and throw side arm and backhand? Or what if you're both right handed but only one of you can throw both ways? The advantage is not in which is your dominant hand, the advantage is in how many different types of shots you can accurately throw.
Cgkdisc
.:Hall of Fame Member:.
Just because a hole bends to the right does not mean it's a lefty back hand hole as many lefties have pointed out over the years. Many times righty designers will unconsciously shape the fairway so it primarily favors a righty turnover. I don't think it's necessary to have an exact balance of right and left bending holes. However, if the right bending holes primarily favor specifically LHBH curves or RH turnovers and not the other or both, then it's unfairly unbalanced.
I would be more concerned that this course on all that propety looks like mostly a par 3 course with most holes reachable in the first 18? One way to balance a course for RH and LH throws of any type is to have multiple shot par 4s and 5s. It also looks like the longer tee distances got loaded into the course info as red instead of blue or gold. Hopefully, they actually have the longer tees marked on the course as blue or gold following the accepted PDGA marking conventions.
I would be more concerned that this course on all that propety looks like mostly a par 3 course with most holes reachable in the first 18? One way to balance a course for RH and LH throws of any type is to have multiple shot par 4s and 5s. It also looks like the longer tee distances got loaded into the course info as red instead of blue or gold. Hopefully, they actually have the longer tees marked on the course as blue or gold following the accepted PDGA marking conventions.
Your argument has nothing to do with the nature of the course. Obviously, a player with more throws is going to score better than a player without.
If you compare two players of equal skill throwing opposite handed from each other, the course that has more left-to-right holes is going to favor the left-handed thrower and that shouldn't be. The balanced course will naturally favor the player who has more shots.
Depends on what fairly balanced is. If you somehow figure out what percentage of golfers are left handed and design all courses based on that percentage.. but that would leave you with a small number of holes that were already predetermined and it would be up to the designer to figure out where to put them or worse case scenario, cram them.
This basically concerning the Black Locust course. Or course design in general. A lot of people have me confused for HATING it, I don't really hate it, in fact I think most (90%+) holes are well designed, but as a course as a whole it doesn't work together.
This is because it has a lefty vs. righty shot ratio of at least 2 to 1. Meaning it favors lhbh or rhsa shots twice as often or even more often than lhsa or rhbh shots.
Some recent reviewers seem to think this is OK, because 'every other course favors 'rhbh' shots more often'. That's fine for them to believe that if they want.
I don't think 2 wrongs (a lefty bias course to make up for other righty bias courses) make for a right.
Every course should be fairly balanced for all players, and for more shot variety and for practice.
Well I just wanted to throw that out there.
This is a really good way of saying it. A course should offer the same opportunities to equally skilled players with the same set of shots but who are opposite handed. Not that it's necessarily easy to accomplish a design that's completely fair, but I think it's a good thing to strive for.
Par is I'm going to kick you in the nuts.
I throw sidearm just fine. Parked most of the holes there that's not the issue. It's not about how I can play the course, it's about the fact that it's lack of variety of types of turns and shots brings down it's overall rating. I wouldn't love a course that was 66% hyzers for me, either. Or a course of 18 straight tunnels.
Apparently no one can actually read a thread. It's not that I can't throw a sidearm, though I can. It's that the course doesn't offer up a fair balance, or a large variety of shot types. A course is a course by itself- unless you're playing it together with another course in a tournament it doesn't matter if you can throw hyzers at 'the other course in town', you only play one course at a time.
Nvm I have always known it's pointless to use logic in online forums, that's why I hardly post.
garublador
* Ace Member *
I think people are getting caught up on the word "fair." IMO, it's not about being "fair," it's about requireing a variety of shots. If one type of shot can get you a good lie on most of the holes, it's not a particularly interesting course to play. I can go to a field if I want to work on hyzers, anhyzers, sidearm shots or straight shots. A course that requires lots of differnent shots and rewards line shaping skills it's just a better and more interesting course to play than one where a good anhyzer/hyzer/thumber/whatever will get you a birdie on 12 holes.
taxman
Par Member
i think grablador hit the nail on the head. is that what you were intending to say innovadude? i'd have to agree. i think it would affect my score of a course if i felt like to many of the holes were essentially the same shot.
Agreed, but I have 3 shots that turn right (RHFH, turnover, thumber). I use them all at different points during a round. It all depends on hole design and how sharply the right-hand turn needs to be.
I'm in favor of both variety and "fairness".
Maximum variety, in shots required, distances, challenges, etc., makes a course more fun and challenging. This would include shots that turn both left and right.
"Fairness", or what I would consider "balance", is also an important consideration. Not absolute balance, but reasonable balance. Many players only throw one way (usually RHBH), or even if they have a forehand, are significantly stronger one way or the other. If you've got two equally-skilled players, one RH and one LH, or one primarily RHBH and the other RHFH, the course shouldn't overwhelmingly favor one or the other.
Inevitably, courses will favor one somewhat---but should not have an extreme imbalance.
(Someone brought up long holes favoring longer throwers. This, to my mind, is completely different, as rarely would you consider 400'-throwers and 250'-throwers "equally skilled".)
I don't know the course that started this, but I've actually seen few if any that I thought were imbalanced to the point of being a problem.
Despare
Bogey Member
I think it's just a different type of course, it forces you to throw differently than you would on another course and adds a bit of variety. I like Black Locust a lot being a sidearm thrower and it's a great compliment to Hudson Mills (I'll be playing both today actually...). I don't care if a course is "fair", as long as it's fun.
He's not complaining that you have to use different throws. He is saying that the course is flawed, because one type of throw will help your shots more than it should. If a course favors one type of throw, it is not a great course. A great course needs to challenge EVERY discer, and that means the every shot is needed to make it through the round.
From what I understand, no one here was complaining about a bad round at a course, they were simply saying that it is not as challenging as a course, and that reviews need to reflect that.
