2012 Pro World's DVD

[Cgkdisc]

The problem going way beyond disc golf is people won't pay for web content versus printed content. Like it or not, for the time being providing a magazine appears to be a better value proposition for membership than having it as web content. Doing high quality video, photos and stats on a website cost the same and even more to produce as well as a magazine and yet people do not value it as highly to pay for it.

Videos in particular are expensive to do well - likely more costly to do a 10-minute video versus a section of a magazine that takes 10 minutes to read. If it's on a website, it's expected that everyone can see it like the Course Directory, Rules, Calendar and Results rather than be restricted to members only. So that removes a member benefit if the magazine goes.

 

[holotone]

So that removes a member benefit if the magazine goes.

More importantly, the cost is significantly reduced. I've always wondered why they didn't offer a cheap membership sans subscription.

 

[Cgkdisc]

They tried it but it didn't work out. All members need access to official PDGA information so those who opted out of the mag still had to receive the 8 printed official PDGA pages which were already embedded in the mag. Postage (and handling at the PDGA fulfillment center) is now close to half of the cost for providing the magazine so you might as well send the whole thing versus 8 pages for about the same postage.

 

[holotone]

They tried it but it didn't work out. All members need access to official PDGA information so those who opted out of the mag still had to receive the 8 printed official PDGA pages which were already embedded in the mag. Postage (and handling at the PDGA fulfillment center) is now close to half of the cost for providing the magazine so you might as well send the whole thing versus 8 pages for about the same postage.

Haven't these people heard of email? Also the magazine is quarterly, which means quadruple the cost.

 

[Cgkdisc]

You missed the part about not every member having web access or email.

 

[Script]

Chuck, I think you are living in the past.

If you make sure that 8 pages of important information is easily accessible on the website, no need to send out anything. Local PDGA's will be found out from local interest, and large events gain momentum from online hype.

I also am one for reducing pdga fees and focusing on getting 100,000+ members and getting more members to legitimize the sport.

 

[T.Hizzle]

Chuck, I think you are living in the past.

If you make sure that 8 pages of important information is easily accessible on the website, no need to send out anything. Local PDGA's will be found out from local interest, and large events gain momentum from online hype.

I also am one for reducing pdga fees and focusing on getting 100,000+ members and getting more members to legitimize the sport.

If the pdga dropped the DVD and magazine, instead paying for the new members first tournament. I think you would see a huge increase in membership. Or at least for women and juniors.

 

[Cgkdisc]

Note that the PDGA has always been more about providing the services members want and and appear to be willing to pay for, not quantity of members. All disc golfers get the free services PDGA provides so they are just "members" who don't feel they get enough value to pay to support those free services.

 

[MrHighlandPark]

The problem going way beyond disc golf is people won't pay for web content versus printed content.

You're dead wrong if you think they'll pay for printed content either. Almost no newspaper or magazine publishers are profitable today. How many high profile bankruptcies have we seen in that industry? Investors even in a flagship publication like the NYTimes are in it for their digital future. There is no print future - it's already dead. The last thing disc golf needs is to get started on last century's business model.

Getting tens of thousands of eyeballs on your website for 30 minutes at a time is worth legit money. Selling magazine ads to disc golf bag manufacturers is not.

 

[Script]

Note that the PDGA has always been more about providing the services members want and and appear to be willing to pay for, not quantity of members. All disc golfers get the free services PDGA provides so they are just "members" who don't feel they get enough value to pay to support those free services.

So, because a small percentage of members don't have internet, the majority of the members don't see the benefits of a nice webpage with great information because funding is being used on the 5% of non-online people?

Has there ever been a market research study to see the % of non-internet pdga members?

And "Note that the PDGA has always been more about providing the services members want and and appear to be willing to pay for, not quantity of members." seems like a very short sighted business model. With this attitude the PDGA will not be the catalyst for the sport.

 

[MrHighlandPark]

Note that the PDGA has always been more about providing the services members want and and appear to be willing to pay for, not quantity of members. All disc golfers get the free services PDGA provides so they are just "members" who don't feel they get enough value to pay to support those free services.

Those people are the future of the sport and are collectively worth a couple orders of magnitude more money than the few who aren't online. You don't need them to become members ever - just get them hooked on visiting the website every week to follow the latest tournament, and they will drive ad revenue. But there has to be quality habit-forming content for them to consume, and I don't think there is yet.

The only relevant benefit of becoming a member is the player rating. That's what people join for. Everything else (including 99% of what's in the magazine) is available for free elsewhere. Perks like hotel discounts are phony - we can all use kayak or hotwire to get better rates than what the pdga can arrange. I think the "membership benefit" bonus should be focused on things akin to the player rating. More stats on our player profile pages. Highest and lowest rated rounds. Career earnings. Season and career aces scored in pdga tournaments. This kind of stuff is the one and only thing that the pdga can offer me that nobody else can.

 

[Cgkdisc]

Sorry but the reality is that people still feel better about paying for tangible stuff, i.e. what's in it for me, than services. Stark example is how players have no problem popping $15 to $20 for discs but would whine endlessly if a TD netted $15 to $20 per player for their efforts to organize and run an event, even though much more labor was expended to produce the tournament than making the disc. Many players join the PDGA solely because they play enough events that they save money on the $10 non-member fee (Saving the $10 is a tangible benefit not a service).

Until people in society, not just disc golfers, gradually get used to and show they are willing to pay for services, some which don't directly benefit the customer, there's going to be disruption in the marketplace transition with those providing more tangible products still holding the edge. The net business model for the PDGA still favors providing the magazine for several years. If you were on the PDGA Board, you would see the same thing even if you personally did not see the value in the mag.

 

[MrHighlandPark]

If you sold the magazine separate from pdga membership, I think you'd have fewer than 1,000 subscribers. Ratings and stats are your core product.

Facebook disagrees that you need to sell something tangeble.

 

[DiscChainBasket18]

Massive undertaking!

Being someone who films Disc Golf I can tell you trying to film Worlds would be a massive project. It would take a lot of money to produce a film worthy of DVD sales. Who do you film? How many cameras would you need? A bunch! Would you film in HD? Everything is HD nowadays & this adds to the technical woes, etc.
Just be happy we have Youtube & so many independent videographers. Look for my exclusive Worlds coverage coming to a desktop near you!

 

[holotone]

Until people in society, not just disc golfers, gradually get used to and show they are willing to pay for services, some which don't directly benefit the customer, there's going to be disruption in the marketplace transition with those providing more tangible products still holding the edge. The net business model for the PDGA still favors providing the magazine for several years. If you were on the PDGA Board, you would see the same thing even if you personally did not see the value in the mag.

I can't afford a membership, so I'm not a PDGA member. If I were, though, I'd only do it for the rating and tourney registration discount. These are the only compelling 'products' that the PDGA 'sells'.

The vast majority of the cost of PDGA membership goes toward things I do. not. want. I wouldn't purchase a car for the tires, and I'm not paying $40/year for a rating.

 

[grodney]

I literally don't know anybody who doesn't access the Internet. Who are we talking about?

20% of American adults don't use the internet.
http://www.cinemablend.com/pop/Twenty-Percent-American-Adults-Never-Use-Internet-41439.html
http://www.pcworld.com/article/253807/1_in_5_americans_are_internet_innocents.html
Original research: http://pewresearch.org/pubs/2240/internet-adoption-digital-online-broadband-mobile

Do your own googling and see that somewhere between 5% and 15% don't have ACCESS to the internet.

And that's Americans. Lots of PDGA members are not American. Their internet access may be higher or lower than Americans.


p.s. I'm not disagreeing that sending a magazine is dumb. Just disagreeing that "less than 1%" of members don't have internet access.

 

[holotone]

20% of American adults don't use the internet.

The vast majority are over 65.

Also, if you live in America, you have internet access. It might be inconvenient, but you've got it.

 

[MrHighlandPark]

The vast majority are over 65.

Also, if you live in America, you have internet access. It might be inconvenient, but you've got it.

You can't be all things to all people, and this demographic is simply the one to ignore. They don't have discretionary income, and they aren't going to court Nike or Visa to add $100k to the 2020 worlds payout.

 

[T.Hizzle]

I can't afford a membership, so I'm not a PDGA member. If I were, though, I'd only do it for the rating and tourney registration discount. These are the only compelling 'products' that the PDGA 'sells'.

The vast majority of the cost of PDGA membership goes toward things I do. not. want. I wouldn't purchase a car for the tires, and I'm not paying $40/year for a rating.

Chuck and the pdga are not total idiots. That's why they imposed the $10 non-pdag membership fee for sanctioned tournaments.

 

[Cgkdisc]

Having the Internet doesn't mean people use it or use it well. Bandwidth for many is inadequate for video as are monitor sizes or their display settings to properly view them. You'd be surprised how many people still don't know how to save a file or attachment let alone retrieve it when they want to look at it.