2017 USDGC

[BrotherDave]

Seen it before myself and I have to agree that I hate it just as much. This is a great example and I can't stand it:

Hole 4 long at Flaherty Park.

Bruh. That's just, no. No sir.

Dave, that IS ugly.
I had just played Elon Eager Beaver a few days ago.
Hole 2 Longs, the tree is even closer than it looks.

I'm fine with this, that looks wide open compared to old hole 7 at Castle Hayne. When it's one tree perfectly in the middle so that all of the tee is still useful, I think this is cool on an occasional hole. When the tree is off center then it's stupid b/c everybody's basically using the same 2/3s of the tee for whatever shot, might as well have saved some concrete and poured a 2/3s narrower tee.

It was probably the most disliked change to the course.

Some pros weren't fans of the changes to 2 and 13, but overall I think the consistent disagreement was with 9's DZ.

I'm finalizing the chase card coverage which will go up tonight, then I'll start into that mountain of footage which is the mini-series (including the qualifying round). I think we shot about 500GB for that project . I'm hoping to get that done within the month. Looking forward to feedback/critique on that style of project.

What seemed to be the consensus on hole 1's change?

 

[robdeforge]

I'm finalizing the chase card coverage which will go up tonight, then I'll start into that mountain of footage which is the mini-series (including the qualifying round). I think we shot about 500GB for that project . I'm hoping to get that done within the month. Looking forward to feedback/critique on that style of project.

Just finished watching the Front 9 of the Chase Card coverage and just wanted to say I LOVE the commentary duo!! Also so appreciative of the extra coverage, thanks for deciding to film it (the one rain round of the event, no less) and putting this excellent video together

Looking forward to the mini-series thing too. I don't usually watch a lot of disc golf related content that's not round coverage but I do throw something on from time to time and this sounds cool

 

[Karl]

As long as no part of the tree is "reachable" (say, within 4 - 4.5 feet) during a follow-through by the longest of armed players, I'm fine with having a sequoia in front. Just makes one 'think' a little prior to their tee shot.
Ps: the 4+ foot 'rule' should also apply to ANYTHING near the tee (i.e. signs, trees, benches, etc.)

 

[roblee]

The health and longevity of trees likely to be hit often should be considered during thoughtful design IMO.

 

[Harold Duvall]

The support columns in front of the drop zone on hole 9 and the posts on hole 2 are quite drought resistant and disc resistant

The drop zone on 9 is about 180 feet from the target; it is about 140 feet to clear the OB. In our testing, Andrew and I threw slight anhyzers around the supports, hammers through the larger upper opening, and sidearms through the smaller lower openings. All were pretty achievable except in an extremely severe right to left wind that really pushed down the outside anhyzer. I did not see wind like this during the Championship, but it could have occurred. My favorite was the sidearm through the lower opening which worked better the lower I could release it. If 9 remains as an eagleable par4, we will add OB against the baseball fence to make the players execute a more speed-sensitive shot and to put a bit more emotional engagement into the conservative play.

~ Harold

 

[Rockwell]

I love reading Harold's thoughts and concepts around the course design process. It points toward a goal of engaging the player's physical, mental, emotional skills as they navigate the track and making each shot meaningful!

 

[JTacoma03]

The support columns in front of the drop zone on hole 9 and the posts on hole 2 are quite drought resistant and disc resistant

The drop zone on 9 is about 180 feet from the target; it is about 140 feet to clear the OB. In our testing, Andrew and I threw slight anhyzers around the supports, hammers through the larger upper opening, and sidearms through the smaller lower openings. All were pretty achievable except in an extremely severe right to left wind that really pushed down the outside anhyzer. I did not see wind like this during the Championship, but it could have occurred. My favorite was the sidearm through the lower opening which worked better the lower I could release it. If 9 remains as an eagleable par4, we will add OB against the baseball fence to make the players execute a more speed-sensitive shot and to put a bit more emotional engagement into the conservative play.

~ Harold

I love reading Harold's thoughts and concepts around the course design process. It points toward a goal of engaging the player's physical, mental, emotional skills as they navigate the track and making each shot meaningful!

^^^This.

There are no changes made to that course that are not fully thought out. I respect the hell out of that, even if I don't personally love some of them. Before the event lots of people gave some knee jerk reactions, but when you listen to the reasons behind the changes, they all make sense.

 

[_MTL_]

^^^This.

There are no changes made to that course that are not fully thought out. I respect the hell out of that, even if I don't personally love some of them. Before the event lots of people gave some knee jerk reactions, but when you listen to the reasons behind the changes, they all make sense.

With all due respect to you and Harold, nothing makes sense about forcing someone to throw behind a metal structure.

 

[TheOtherBill]

With all due respect to you and Harold, nothing makes sense about forcing someone to throw behind a metal structure.

I have not throw this exact shot, but I have been stuck behind those supports when my drive went long.

This is not 'behind' a metal structure - it is throwing either around or through a metal structure. In my eyes, that mimics throwing around or through small branches, which is something DG'ers have to do all the time.

 

[Streets]

With all due respect to you and Harold, nothing makes sense about forcing someone to throw behind a metal structure.

No one forced the player to throw OB

 

[Steve West]

No one forced the player to throw OB

And they can go back to previous lie.

 

[DiscJunkie]

No one forced the player to throw OB

Drop Zones are part of the course design, just like OB, and so they can be and should be scrutinized as part of the course design.

 

[_MTL_]

No one forced the player to throw OB

Correct. The root of the issue is a poor throw from the player.

However the one thing a designer can't control is what the players will do or attempt to do. They can control what happens after the disc is released and stops, however.

And in this example, the staff decided that an OB Throw would force a player into this lie. It is my strong opinion that a drop zone after a penalty shouldn't be guarded as the penalty for a bad shot should either be a tough / tricky upshot or a penalty. Unfortunately, this design is both.

I have zero issues with someone throwing to this exact spot and having this lie - and that's the difference that people are ignoring.

 

[tom12003]

As far as hole 9's metal structure near the drop zone, I think 3-4 players (out of 99 players throwing 4 rounds) were adversely effected by it (I saw every shot on that hole as the spotter)

 

[_MTL_]

As far as hole 9's metal structure near the drop zone, I think 3-4 players (out of 99 players throwing 4 rounds) were adversely effected by it (I saw every shot on that hole as the spotter)

IMHO, that's 3-4 too many from a drop zone.

 

[tom12003]

If 9 remains as an eagleable par4, we will add OB against the baseball fence to make the players execute a more speed-sensitive shot and to put a bit more emotional engagement into the conservative play.
~ Harold

An OB against the baseball fence would take away the RHBH roller shot that crash that fence, leaving a 70-100 ft safe approach shot for their birdie. About 15-20% of the competitors through a roller and most would have been penalized with this OB addition.

 

[notroman]

IMHO, that's 3-4 too many from a drop zone.

How does that make sense? It's perfectly fine to have obstacles in the way from a DZ. It doesn't have to be an easy shot to the green.

 

[_MTL_]

How does that make sense? It's perfectly fine to have obstacles in the way from a DZ. It doesn't have to be an easy shot to the green.

I'm not a fan of the double penalty. I strongly believe a bad shot should either had a bad lie / tricky shot or a stroke penalty. Not both. It's just a preference. Not everyone agrees and that's ok.

 

[notroman]

I'm not a fan of the double penalty. I strongly believe a bad shot should either had a bad lie / tricky shot or a stroke penalty. Not both. It's just a preference. Not everyone agrees and that's ok.

But it's not a double penalty...if only 3-4 people out of the entire field over 4 rounds missed the shot as a result of the obstacle then that's pretty darn good. I was actually surprised the number was that low. You can't expect everyone to execute a shot, even if it's wide open.

edit - to expand on the above, most drop zones I've played make it very difficult but not impossible to save your par. You are usually playing for a bogey. The drop zone on hole 9 is no different. Nobody said you have to run the green to try to save your par, but it's an option albeit a risky one. Likewise, you can pitch a shot around the obstacle, up to the green, and putt for your bogey - but nobody wants to do that.

 

[JTacoma03]

I'm not a fan of the double penalty. I strongly believe a bad shot should either had a bad lie / tricky shot or a stroke penalty. Not both. It's just a preference. Not everyone agrees and that's ok.

Not having a straight approach route =/= penalty stroke.

Is it possible that your displeasure based on aesthetics is mixing with design critique here? By the logic you're presenting, a Drop Zone should also never have water, trees, hills, etc. between it and the Target because that would also be a "double penalty".