2018 Competition Rules Changes

[krupicka]

I wanted to separate the competition rule changes from the Rules of Play changes as they may interest a different subset of people. The following two here going to kill Pro divisions...

A. Any player accepting cash in a Pro division at a PDGA-sanctioned event (except
leagues) must be a current Pro-class PDGA member. If they are not a current
Pro-class PDGA member, and wish to accept cash, the membership fee for
either their new Pro membership, upgraded membership (if a current Amateur),
or renewed Pro membership is taken out of their winnings by the Tournament
Director and forwarded to the PDGA.
B. An Amateur playing in a Pro division may NOT accept merchandise in lieu of cash;
they may only accept a trophy (if one is available). All cash payouts at or below
that place would move down one place causing an additional place to be paid.

 

[krupicka]

We had 6 ladies play up in FPO to join the one true pro. None of those would have done it if they would have been forced to win nothing (Who is going to pay $50 just to play 2 rounds) or become Pros (which none of them are at that level). That would have left Holly playing solo for the event.

Even in our MPO divisions 30-40% of the field are Ams playing up. I've already heard that most of those will no longer do that which means the MPO division will shrink even more.

I might just stop offering pro divisions...

 

[biscoe]

A is a terrible idea. Either make everyone be a member or don't.

B is going to be a big setback for the FPO division.

 

[DavidSauls]

That ought to boost the number of highly-rated players lingering in Advanced, and the screams of "sandbagging".

A huge step backwards. I thought the change a few years back, for Ams playing Pro and Pros playing Am, had been a great move.

So I know who's going to be unhappy with this......who's going to be happy? Not the Pros will smaller divisions and payouts, or the high-rated Ams given fewer choices, or the lower-rated Ams with the high-rated Ams staying down. So who?

 

[Horsman]

WTF. This sounds like it would only be practical for Pro Only events where you might not have a vendor on site where an AM excepting funny money in lieu of cash could spend their winnings. I dont see any issue with it in Pro/Am events.

Not sure if this will make bagging in AM events better or worse. Either way this is a terrible rule change

 

[sjberry2017]

A is a terrible idea. Either make everyone be a member or don't.

B is going to be a big setback for the FPO division.

 

[Stardoggy]

Is there any explanation for the impetus behind this rule change? Is it thought this would be the push needed to get more people to play Open?

 

[oddjob]

is there are a summary of changes for these as well? that's a massive step backwards.

 

[araytx]

Yeah, there will be more screams of sandbagging, especially when players like me are playing in Am divisions. No chance to get anything at all in Pro. I donate enough times, I'd like to at least get something the few times I actually do well.

It's OK, though. The RC is basically telling me, "if you want to get some merch, play Am." Perhaps this is step one in pushing everyone toward pro divisions. Step 2 -- eliminate merch from Am divisions and go with True Anateur or Trophy Only.

 

[_MTL_]

I'm ok with forcing membership for non-members in pro divisions. I'm not ok that it happens after the fact, rather than up front as Biscoe alluded to. This adds more work to TD's and I imagine this would happen more at smaller events which will traditionally have more inexperienced TDs.

I think the Am taking merch in open was a great solution to players waiting for Am worlds, which is going to happen. In the big A tiers and such, it's not a big deal that these players play advanced. However it's a major issue with these players are the best players in their area and would compete for the win in open.

 

[krupicka]

We have a lot of players play MA1 on one day and play up in MPO on the opposite day. Now they will just play MA1 and do something else on the MPO day.

 

[biscoe]

We have a lot of players play MA1 on one day and play up in MPO on the opposite day. Now they will just play MA1 and do something else on the MPO day.

it's like the people who wrote the rules have never run an event...

 

[araytx]

WTF. This sounds like it would only be practical for Pro Only events where you might not have a vendor on site where an AM excepting funny money in lieu of cash could spend their winnings. I dont see any issue with it in Pro/Am events.

Not sure if this will make bagging in AM events better or worse. Either way this is a terrible rule change

I think like Krupicka said, more higher rated Ams will be playing in the Am divisions; so yes, people will be screaming "bagger".


I do see one good thing. It's probably the only ruling that, if changed back in mid-season, most players would welcome it and not conplain.

 

[DavidSauls]

I'm ok with forcing membership for non-members in pro divisions. I'm not ok that it happens after the fact, rather than up front as Biscoe alluded to. This adds more work to TD's and I imagine this would happen more at smaller events which will traditionally have more inexperienced TDs.
.

Talk about things I don't want to deal with during the post-tournament crush; finding out what Ams playing Pro want; and possibly deducting their upgraded membership fee and doing the paperwork.

*

In the meantime, I've got some time to figure out what to do with a team-play event, where teams are mixes of Pros & Ams and we pay out in cash and merch, respectively, based on team finish.

 

[JoakimBL]

This is seriously dumb. Period.

 

[PWaggoner]

I am not supportive of this.

 

[Consult20]

A & B = Dumb & Dumber

 

[geoloseth]

Yeah, there will be more screams of sandbagging, especially when players like me are playing in Am divisions. No chance to get anything at all in Pro. I donate enough times, I'd like to at least get something the few times I actually do well.

It's OK, though. The RC is basically telling me, "if you want to get some merch, play Am." Perhaps this is step one in pushing everyone toward pro divisions. Step 2 -- eliminate merch from Am divisions and go with True Anateur or Trophy Only.

That's the only logical step I can see the RC going toward after making a change like this. It seems like they want to push toward a PGA style separation and treatment of pro and am players. But they have to realize that it will piss off the vast majority of players that fund the pdga, and it could easily lead to formations of new events outside the pdga scope (southern nationals, etc.) where ams are free to take cash. Then the pdga has created their own competition.

I just think the pdga is trying to have their cake and eat it too. Either they need to be the USGA and deal with rules or the PGA and deal with events. Can't do both effectively.

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[_MTL_]

Not that it matters since all PDGA stuff is the PDGA but worth mentioning...

This is a competition committee decision NOT a rules committee decision.

I'm not affiliated with either, so I have no vested interest. Just want to make sure if you decide to send an email, it is sent to the right place.

 

[araytx]

Not that it matters since all PDGA stuff is the PDGA but worth mentioning...

This is a competition committee decision NOT a rules committee decision.

I'm not affiliated with either, so I have no vested interest. Just want to make sure if you decide to send an email, it is sent to the right place.

Just realized this. Chuck is on the Comp Committee. Care to comment cgkdisc?