2023 LVC

[araytx]

Did you see the shot where AB's disc hit a spotter and went into the hazard? Spotter was kicking himself on the inside, then realized he was on camera.

I think Ian said he was the "thrower-distance-kinda-spotter" guy. He is the guy who has the Bushnell rangefinder and reports back the distances to the announcers in the booth. Ironically its applicable only for the group(s) being covered on video.

 

[Flick Maniac]

That was one hell of a ride watching the last round on Jomez. Nearly every hole after the first few had something insane going on.

Really surprised by the AB and especially Eagle implosions. Or course when it snowballs and you know youre out of it, then its even easier to just lose focus.

I think we need to find straight/stable midrange Eagle likes. He was relying on that Razor Claw anhyzer flex way too much. Didnt work on 1 (no penalty), didnt work on the triple mando hole, (no penalty), didnt work on 9 (causing a two stroke swing), and didnt work on 11 (2 stroke swing to EVERYONE ELSE on the card, ironically all of them throwing a forehand driver). Not to rag on the disc itself but the choice to use it on those holes.

Luckily the Calvin fire show made it worth it. Was rooting for both guys (maybe a smidge more for Kevin to get that elite series win) and they delivered an amazing and entertaining final round. Despite what the golf course snoozefest naysayers claim, this was anything but boring.

Kinda wanna go look at the chase card for more fire.

 

[bobmcnelly]

discgolf ist expensive enough
never in my live im gonna pay for a live coverage

Then you won't be watching the pro tour.

 

[glassila]

Then you won't be watching the pro tour.

Agree.
I held out for a long time before deciding to get on board. It's $7 a month with the 1/2 off PDGA member discount. There are 3 or 4 events per month so I don't think it's a bad deal at all. :clap:

 

[Cgkdisc]

As in many events these days, the "throws" that weren't made determined the outcome (Hazard/OB).

 

[biscoe]

As in many events these days, the "throws" that weren't made determined the outcome (Hazard/OB).

Not really. Calvin had 3 more penalties over the event than Kevin did.

 

[Rol6566]

Spotter getting hit is better than the random guy in the golf cart that stopped Cats disc from coming back in bounds

 

[Cgkdisc]

Not really. Calvin had 3 more penalties over the event than Kevin did.

Just talking the scrambling of player finish positions not due to lack of skill. Even then, you can't tell whether some penalties were the equivalent of two throws since "distance lost" is not tracked. Granted, a Hazard penalty has no distance penalty component.

 

[biscoe]

Just talking the scrambling of player finish positions not due to lack of skill. Even then, you can't tell whether some penalties were the equivalent of two throws since "distance lost" is not tracked. Granted, a Hazard penalty has no distance penalty component.

Whether the result suits your opinion on granularity or not the players knew where the lines were and not to color outside of them if they wanted to score well. To deem the results scrambled undue to "lack of skill" is a tad disingenuous.

 

[philstine]

Whether the result suits your opinion on granularity or not the players knew where the lines were and not to color outside of them if they wanted to score well. To deem the results scrambled undue to "lack of skill" is a tad disingenuous.

Consider the source.

 

[Monkeypaws]

It is something seeing guys like Barela and McMahon throwing over 600' in tournament play.

 

[Cgkdisc]

Whether the result suits your opinion on granularity or not the players knew where the lines were and not to color outside of them if they wanted to score well. To deem the results scrambled undue to "lack of skill" is a tad disingenuous.

Hazards in or on the edges of the fairways, especially when blind or difficult to see their boundaries from 300+ feet away, are unnecessary design elements and result in fluky outcomes. Players produce scoring separation with their own failures to execute. I tracked the OB penalties and they averaged higher per player in the final round than in Round 2 on the same course even though the field was reduced to the better half of the field. Considering that the finals fields in theory have higher skills and the weather was better than two days prior, the Hazard/OB locations produced in inverted result where the better the players, the more penalties they got versus the usual design intent for hazard placement is to penalize less skillful throws.

 

[biscoe]

Hazards in or on the edges of the fairways, especially when blind or difficult to see their boundaries from 300+ feet away, are unnecessary design elements and result in fluky outcomes. Players produce scoring separation with their own failures to execute. I tracked the OB penalties and they averaged higher per player in the final round than in Round 2 on the same course even though the field was reduced to the better half of the field. Considering that the finals fields in theory have higher skills and the weather was better than two days prior, the Hazard/OB locations produced in inverted result where the better the players, the more penalties they got versus the usual design intent for hazard placement is to penalize less skillful throws.

My tendency would be to attribute more penalties per player during the final round as indicative of more risk taking behavior on the part of those players (see Eagle's drive on 18) as well as possibly on the elimination of a chunk of the field that was less capable of reaching the penalty areas off of the tee. (And I don't really care for string disc golf either.) I have virtually zero doubt that the players who played the best wound up at the top.

 

[@CD-]

I think we need to find straight/stable midrange Eagle likes. He was relying on that Razor Claw anhyzer flex way too much. Didnt work on 1 (no penalty), didnt work on the triple mando hole, (no penalty), didnt work on 9 (causing a two stroke swing), and didnt work on 11 (2 stroke swing to EVERYONE ELSE on the card, ironically all of them throwing a forehand driver). Not to rag on the disc itself but the choice to use it on those holes.

Hole 11 - Heimburg threw BH Champion Toro to park it. Barela threw BH Z Luna and barely stayed in bounds (rocks along OB line) and took a 3. Jones went FH driver and barely stayed in (OB string). McBeth also went BH Z Luna and turned it over into OB the same way as Eagle.

I'm guessing you mean hole 8 instead of 9, tricky BH turnover to get right with tailwind for Eagle. Maybe a good place to throw the lefty BH hyzer?

Wasn't 100% certain it was a Tactic for the light blue throws but it did seem to be that kind of flight. Looked like a mini stamp Lux/Vapor plastic one so maybe he just needs to work that one in a bit.

Wind/glide from a big diameter mid range might push those past good landing areas and bring OB into play. Maybe he should get back to throwing P2s more but I'm sure we'll see some MD3s and maybe MD1s from Eagle at WACO.
https://youtube.com/clip/UgkxuhL1XhxCp_aMaN3-ops6E0kMJ09GeT6c

Definitely unusual to see him and Barela fall off the pace and out of contention those final 9 holes. Maybe the adjustment from tailwind to headwind cause them some issues?

 

[Steve West]

Whether the result suits your opinion on granularity or not the players knew where the lines were and not to color outside of them if they wanted to score well. To deem the results scrambled undue to "lack of skill" is a tad disingenuous.

It's rare that the tendency of bad-luckiness to scramble scores overcomes the tendency of higher scores to better separate players by skill.

For example, look at hole #7 on the Innova Champion course. There is so little penalty-free land around the target that there is no incentive to strategize. There is no better way to play the hole than just hope you don't get unlucky.

And yet ... that hole contributed more information to the distribution of round scores than any of the other holes on that course except #14.

Now, since the last thing any TD wants is a course that will actually measure player skills accurately (because then there would be no playoffs or last-round drama), the smart thing to do would be to remove all the penalty areas.

 

[Flick Maniac]

Hole 11 - Heimburg threw BH Champion Toro to park it. Barela threw BH Z Luna and barely stayed in bounds (rocks along OB line) and took a 3. Jones went FH driver and barely stayed in (OB string). McBeth also went BH Z Luna and turned it over into OB the same way as Eagle.

I'm guessing you mean hole 8 instead of 9, tricky BH turnover to get right with tailwind for Eagle. Maybe a good place to throw the lefty BH hyzer?

Wasn't 100% certain it was a Tactic for the light blue throws but it did seem to be that kind of flight. Looked like a mini stamp Lux/Vapor plastic one so maybe he just needs to work that one in a bit.

Wind/glide from a big diameter mid range might push those past good landing areas and bring OB into play. Maybe he should get back to throwing P2s more but I'm sure we'll see some MD3s and maybe MD1s from Eagle at WACO.
https://youtube.com/clip/UgkxuhL1XhxCp_aMaN3-ops6E0kMJ09GeT6c

Definitely unusual to see him and Barela fall off the pace and out of contention those final 9 holes. Maybe the adjustment from tailwind to headwind cause them some issues?

I knww I should have checked the hole #s. Thanks.

Yeah, it was hole 8 where Eagle went OB and everyone flicking a driver deuced it.

2 holes later, Razor Claw OB again, while Kevin and Calvin birdie it again. Those 4 combined strokes against the leaders pretty much did him in. Erasing the subsequent 3 bogeys would not have helped him win.

 

[Flick Maniac]

In other news, Simon unfortunately did quite the bit of backpedaling, dropping 28 spots during the final round. (runners-up in spots dropped being Presnell & Tanner both dropping 24 spots)

 

[ChrisWoj]

In other news, Simon unfortunately did quite the bit of backpedaling, dropping 28 spots during the final round. (runners-up in spots dropped being Presnell & Tanner both dropping 24 spots)

Simon did quite a bit of backpedaling, so to speak, every round.

Ratings aren't up for Round 1 for some reason, but it appears that Round 1 was much more difficult for players than Round 3 on the same course, where a 53 was a 1036.

So Simon led off with a round that was over 1036, it'll likely come in well above his rating.
Round 2 - 1031
Round 3 - 1003
Round 4 - 962

Obviously the last round was quite a bit below what we ever expect him to shoot, but he was moving round by round further and further below his rating.


Tied with Simon - Tanner had quite the wild event.
Round 1 was likely just a bit below 1000
Round 2 1045
Round 3 1039
Round 4 970

 

[texasissouth]

Simon did quite a bit of backpedaling, so to speak, every round.

Ratings aren't up for Round 1 for some reason, but it appears that Round 1 was much more difficult for players than Round 3 on the same course, where a 53 was a 1036.

So Simon led off with a round that was over 1036, it'll likely come in well above his rating.
Round 2 - 1031
Round 3 - 1003
Round 4 - 962

Obviously the last round was quite a bit below what we ever expect him to shoot, but he was moving round by round further and further below his rating.


Tied with Simon - Tanner had quite the wild event.
Round 1 was likely just a bit below 1000
Round 2 1045
Round 3 1039
Round 4 970

Interesting. I wonder if it's just start of season fatigue? He's stuck in Mass during the winter so that can't be the best for staying in shape and playing when it's cold for months and months on end.

 

[BillFleming]

Interesting. I wonder if it's just start of season fatigue? He's stuck in Mass during the winter so that can't be the best for staying in shape and playing when it's cold for months and months on end.

I'm hoping it isn't soreness setting in. I'm sure he's had to do a lot of off season throwing to get used to his new discs and figure out which ones he was going to bag. That might have taken a whole lot of throwing and stressed his arms/elbows.