2023 PDGA Majors Awarded

[ballgolfconvert]

No. Certainly more than a fair question though. The politics of that are a bit complicated. I am not interested in airing those grievances here.

Honestly, we have extensively discussed involvement in majors and DGPT events and don't feel that our energy and resources are best applied, to such a select group of players. Our mission has always been very focused on the AM side of the game. Growing the area from beginner up. I am not trying to derail the thread with this though.

It is safe to say that Michigan tournament calendars are a challenge each season. Adding another major is going to make it more difficult. Our longstanding and only A Tier of the season, has always been in April, in addition to our non-sanctioned One Disc Challenge, club membership drive event. Our A Tier event is always popular, especially in giving AM players a chance to get an early jump on points. It would be a larger concern, if a large A Tier event is run, in conjunction with the major.

There are likely positives that we will focus on though. Pro players in town can offer a host of club opportunities for lessons, player signing events... I am hoping we can work on being a vehicle, for giving local AMs more chances to meet and play with the pro players. Maybe working this, in conjunction with our membership drive can prove to be a win-win. Hopefully, a PDGA major will infuse the area with opportunity for infrastructure upgrades and improvements for our local players. Obviously, the PDGA impact is likely to be more along the lines of USDGA, than a Worlds....just by scope alone.

Shrug...regardless, COVID has sure taught us to be flexible, as a club. We will have no say in how the calendar works out and will focus on how the addition of a major, can have a positive impact on our local scene. I guess it is not much different than having a World's in the area. It feels a lot more like a DGPT event though, given an outside TD coming in to run the event.

Run a Pro Am event 2 days before the event. Use the am fees to provide a pro purse to get the pro players to participate or give them a stipend for particpating. FYI PGA tour requires the pro players to participate in their Pro-Ams. Also reschedule your A Tier so it does not conflict the dates.

 

[Three Putt]

I know there is a lot of talk around NC that hosting Pro Worlds just isn't really worth it. That Am Worlds does more for the local scene. Maybe that is because NC is already fairly established, but with the lack of help given to the hosting club given by the PDGA, even in an area full of volunteers, it is more of a headache and none of the TD's qualified to really host a major in the area seem to have any interest in it.

Some things never change. Way back in the late '90's Kansas City got the bid for Am Worlds and I asked Rick Rothstein if they were going to bid on a Pro Worlds; I got a rant about how Am Worlds makes money and helps bring resources into your local scene and Pro Worlds loses money and sucks resources out of your scene. He was a longtime BoD member, and he basically said they would host Pro Worlds over his dead body. They did host a combined Pro/Am Worlds about a decade later, but Rick wasn't the TD.

That feeling that Pro Worlds isn't worth it to a local club goes way back. It's also why there is always one or two bids for Worlds. In theory everyone thinks they would like to host it, but by the time you get anywhere close to putting together a legit bid the reality of the the amount of resources you are about to dump on one event pumps the breaks on that.

 

[araytx]

The PDGA only shows how many bids there were at the time of the decision. There could have been other bids that were pulled for one reason or another. For example, the a tournament could have had 3 bids initially and then 2 were pulled prior to the decision....so that leaves only one bid.

HOW SO?

still third at best

and DGPT Tour Championship is also owned by a singular entity

 

[BillFleming]

HOW SO?




and DGPT Tour Championship is also owned by a singular entity

Not sure what you mean by "how so".....but, as a guess....

Let's say there's a major called Bill's Biggest Disc Golf Tournament. It's submitted to PDGA early 2021 and three groups submit bids on it in May. Then two of the groups retract their bids in August. The remaining group is awarded the tournament in December. At the time of the PDGA awarding the tournament, there is only one bid. It doesn't matter how many were submitted at the 'open for bids' time....those other bids don't exist at the time of the tournament being awarded.

 

[nothinbuttree]

Maybe the PDGA needs to pony up more $$ for Worlds and stop expecting cities/clubs to do so much. Seems like we are close to no bids, maybe even in reality had none for 2023 and Nate just bailed them out.

 

[biscoe]

Not sure what you mean by "how so".....but, as a guess....

Let's say there's a major called Bill's Biggest Disc Golf Tournament. It's submitted to PDGA early 2021 and three groups submit bids on it in May. Then two of the groups retract their bids in August. The remaining group is awarded the tournament in December. At the time of the PDGA awarding the tournament, there is only one bid. It doesn't matter how many were submitted at the 'open for bids' time....those other bids don't exist at the time of the tournament being awarded.

Unless you can cite an example of this actually happening I don't buy it.

 

[biscoe]

Maybe the PDGA needs to pony up more $$ for Worlds and stop expecting cities/clubs to do so much. Seems like we are close to no bids, maybe even in reality had none for 2023 and Nate just bailed them out.

The PDGA put roughly a gazillion dollars into Worlds 2021. It is not about the money. It is about the time, effort, some whiny players, and general stress on your local dg community.

 

[BillFleming]

Unless you can cite an example of this actually happening I don't buy it.

Got it. I never said it happened....in my initial post, I mentioned that as a possibility of why some only had one bid. It happens in other sports, even the Olympics....bids get pulled before decisions are made. Is that what happened with the disc golf tournaments? I don't know, but it would explain the lack of bids.

 

[biscoe]

Got it. I never said it happened....in my initial post, I mentioned that as a possibility of why some only had one bid. It happens in other sports, even the Olympics....bids get pulled before decisions are made. Is that what happened with the disc golf tournaments? I don't know, but it would explain the lack of bids.

I feel like I have a pretty good grip on it and the primary reason for lack of bids is that these events are gigantic pains in the butt to run. Pandemic based uncertainties were almost surely a factor in this particular batch as well.

 

[araytx]

Not sure what you mean by "how so".....but, as a guess....

Let's say there's a major called Bill's Biggest Disc Golf Tournament. It's submitted to PDGA early 2021 and three groups submit bids on it in May. Then two of the groups retract their bids in August. The remaining group is awarded the tournament in December. At the time of the PDGA awarding the tournament, there is only one bid. It doesn't matter how many were submitted at the 'open for bids' time....those other bids don't exist at the time of the tournament being awarded.

OK,I get that. But I guess there seemed to be something sketchy in the way you originally phrased it. If a groups voluntarily pulls their bid ... then it wasn't really a bid anyway. They might have been on track to get the bid, but if the locals didn't feel they could do it, it's tantamount to have never "submitted" imho.

 

[araytx]

Maybe the PDGA needs to pony up more $$ for Worlds and stop expecting cities/clubs to do so much. Seems like we are close to no bids, maybe even in reality had none for 2023 and Nate just bailed them out.

"The PDGA" (once again, aka, us the players) is perfectly capable of handling the tournament on their own every year at HQ in Georgia. The bid process is an opportunity for other areas to showcase, benefit their local community economically, expose other disc golfers to different destinations and others who run events, etc.

But it's not like "the PDGA" is requiring locals to bid on Worlds just to take some of the expanse off "their" (our) back. It's an opportunity to partner in the process.

 

[nothinbuttree]

"The PDGA" (once again, aka, us the players) is perfectly capable of handling the tournament on their own every year at HQ in Georgia. The bid process is an opportunity for other areas to showcase, benefit their local community economically, expose other disc golfers to different destinations and others who run events, etc.

But it's not like "the PDGA" is requiring locals to bid on Worlds just to take some of the expanse off "their" (our) back. It's an opportunity to partner in the process.

Well apparently all these locals are little impressed with this 'opportunity'. This is supply and demand like so many things in life. The demand to host clearly is not there, and supply is fixed of course, so no buyers means the total price must decrease, and by that I don't just mean the hard money costs, but all the time, issues, and effort involved. I am sure the PDGA controls a good chunk of that. Else we will keep seeing just a few venues showcased moving forward.

 

[araytx]

Well apparently all these locals are little impressed with this 'opportunity'. This is supply and demand like so many things in life. The demand to host clearly is not there, and supply is fixed of course, so no buyers means the total price must decrease, and by that I don't just mean the hard money costs, but all the time, issues, and effort involved. I am sure the PDGA controls a good chunk of that. Else we will keep seeing just a few venues showcased moving forward.

But that is exactly my point. The PDGA doesn't NEED to increase demand. That's not part of the model necessary to continue having their Worlds events. Staying with the limited number of venues who submit is just fine. It's only commenters here and other threads that see it as a problem or a "need".

 

[biscoe]

But that is exactly my point. The PDGA doesn't NEED to increase demand. That's not part of the model necessary to continue having their Worlds events. Staying with the limited number of venues who submit is just fine. It's only commenters here and other threads that see it as a problem or a "need".

If Worlds is nowhere other than Peoria, Emporia, and Vermont over the next 10 years you would not see that as a problem? (It won't be- there will be one in Europe at the least.)

IMO demand for hosting MPO/FPO Worlds is going to stay very limited. We are entering the era of Professional TD's running these things- that currently meaning Heinold, Jeff Spring, and whoever's name is on it for Dynamic. In some ways this is a good thing- I am sure the players prefer dealing with known quantities. Every time a new city/club runs a Major they wind up needing to recreate the wheel instead of just plugging different names into the same slots. It is certainly limiting in other ways though.

Personally I would like to have seen Champions Cup stay at IDGC in perpetuity.

The limited bids for the Am and Masters events I see as more of a Covid thing. Am Worlds has always been a cash cow and will continue to be.

 

[ILUVSMGS18]

If Worlds is nowhere other than Peoria, Emporia, and Vermont over the next 10 years you would not see that as a problem? (It won't be- there will be one in Europe at the least.)

I wouldn't be opposed to that, but it would be nice if both Peoria and Emporia could find a way to make the courses feel less like open bombers. Having Pro Worlds 2hrs away every 3 yes would be great, and I'd be willing to volunteer if I don't end up at level where I was competing in the event. If we could have World's scheduled during a peak foliage time (so 1-2 weeks later than GMC usually is), that would make the courses look even better, especially Brewster on the back 9.

 

[Steve West]

...Am Worlds has always been a cash cow and will continue to be.

It is probably more accurate to say it has the potential to be a cash cow. With enough free labor. There are no guaranteed successes in any kind of business.

 

[biscoe]

I wouldn't be opposed to that, but it would be nice if both Peoria and Emporia could find a way to make the courses feel less like open bombers. Having Pro Worlds 2hrs away every 3 yes would be great, and I'd be willing to volunteer if I don't end up at level where I was competing in the event. If we could have World's scheduled during a peak foliage time (so 1-2 weeks later than GMC usually is), that would make the courses look even better, especially Brewster on the back 9.

I would really, really like to see Worlds back in the Summer and remaining on a set week each year.

 

[araytx]

If Worlds is nowhere other than Peoria, Emporia, and Vermont over the next 10 years you would not see that as a problem? (It won't be- there will be one in Europe at the least.)

IMO demand for hosting MPO/FPO Worlds is going to stay very limited. We are entering the era of Professional TD's running these things- that currently meaning Heinold, Jeff Spring, and whoever's name is on it for Dynamic. In some ways this is a good thing- I am sure the players prefer dealing with known quantities. Every time a new city/club runs a Major they wind up needing to recreate the wheel instead of just plugging different names into the same slots. It is certainly limiting in other ways though.

Personally I would like to have seen Champions Cup stay at IDGC in perpetuity.

The limited bids for the Am and Masters events I see as more of a Covid thing. Am Worlds has always been a cash cow and will continue to be.

What problem is there? You'd have some of the best TD's and it wouldn't be a stretch to say only DGPT venues + the IDGC and the European venue are the only hosts to keep it that way. I see less complaints, and fewer issues among players. "WE" might but not the players.

 

[davetherocketguy]

Hmmmm an excuse for me to fly out to Flagstaff in 2023. I'm not unhappy about that...

 

[biscoe]

What problem is there? You'd have some of the best TD's and it wouldn't be a stretch to say only DGPT venues + the IDGC and the European venue are the only hosts to keep it that way. I see less complaints, and fewer issues among players. "WE" might but not the players.

Less bitching from the players is the definite upside. Among the downsides would be limiting things geographically to too great a degree, stifling possible innovation, and simply placing too big a piece of the pie in one person's hands.

Emporia is the prototype for disc golf incorporating itself fully into a community and they run great events there by all accounts. Eric has done a great job imo of making the Country Club course the best it can be. I don't think there are too many viewers out there who are anxious to see a Major there every year on top of DDO however.