2023 Pro Worlds - Smuggler's Notch

[robdeforge]

Not sure how much has been mentioned in this thread about the General Admission fox run viewing experience, but man did they really screw GA over by some of the ridiculous routes they had people take.

 

[ru4por]

Not sure how much has been mentioned in this thread about the General Admission fox run viewing experience, but man did they really screw GA over by some of the ridiculous routes they had people take.

DGPT is hellbent on ensuring everyone, that the only people who matter in disc golf are a couple hundred pro players and a couple cashflow recipients. I'm sorry the fan experience was subpar, but having watched a event being set up, it is one of the LAST considerations.

 

[Sewer bill]

DGPT is hellbent on ensuring everyone, that the only people who matter in disc golf are a couple hundred pro players and a couple cashflow recipients. I'm sorry the fan experience was subpar, but having watched a event being set up, it is one of the LAST considerations.

How is that not exactly the case though?

 

[ChrisWoj]

How is that not exactly the case though?

*glances at the past four decades*

 

[robdeforge]

How is that not exactly the case though?

I'm not sure what you're asking ru4por? I have been spectating at smuggs for the Green Mountain Championship since 2015 and this was the first time I've ever had these complaints

 

[Shallows]

I'm not sure what you're asking ru4por? I have been spectating at smuggs for the Green Mountain Championship since 2015 and this was the first time I've ever had these complaints

This year was the first time I've had to pay to spectate Smuggs tbh. Peoples' expectations may change once they're charged.

 

[Sewer bill]

I'm not sure what you're asking ru4por? I have been spectating at smuggs for the Green Mountain Championship since 2015 and this was the first time I've ever had these complaints

I thought worlds and really any big tournament was always catering to and designed to offer the most challenging layout to the players and spectators came as an afterthought. What did they do differently this time?

 

[BogeyNoMore]

Not sure how much has been mentioned in this thread about the General Admission fox run viewing experience, but man did they really screw GA over by some of the ridiculous routes they had people take.

Are you implying they're pushing the more premium passes, and not really providing much value fore the "base level" pass holders?

If so, I don't know how anybody could notice that unless/until they actually bought a general admission spectator pass for themselves.

 

[Cgkdisc]

Reminds GA pass holders to "Be an Outsider" by going the long ways around at the event.

 

[Sewer bill]

Reminds GA pass holders to "Be an Outsider" by going the long ways around at the event.

So they have tiers? And the base tiers are told to basically not be a spectator? This is a confusing business decision on the dgpt part.

 

[biscoe]

I thought worlds and really any big tournament was always catering to and designed to offer the most challenging layout to the players and spectators came as an afterthought. What did they do differently this time?

Coverage is the first priority in my experience.

 

[biscoe]

So they have tiers? And the base tiers are told to basically not be a spectator? This is a confusing business decision on the dgpt part.

There are VIP and GA spectator passes. GA are not allowed all the places VIP are (on some wooded holes for instance).

 

[ChrisWoj]

I thought worlds and really any big tournament was always catering to and designed to offer the most challenging layout to the players and spectators came as an afterthought. What did they do differently this time?

I totally misinterpreted your "how is that not exactly the case though" post. I thought you were responding more to the first half of his post where he said "DGPT is hellbent on ensuring everyone, that the only people who matter in disc golf are a couple hundred pro players and a couple cashflow recipients."

In terms of how is that not exactly the case re: the spectators as an afterthought, you have to consider that at the level they are attempting to bring the sport to - where the greatest number of competitors can make a living off of their work, they are essentially creating an entertainment product every bit as much as they are creating a competition product. The spectators on site need to be taken care of, as their ability to be present for the big moments is integral to the impression of spectacle for the broader viewing audience. If you're not creating a great experience, encouraging the year over year growth of that in-person audience, you're harming the long term product that is at the core of the competitors' earnings.

It shouldn't be the first consideration and probably not the second or third, the competitive aspect is obviously number one, but it can't be an afterthought.

 

[robdeforge]

I thought worlds and really any big tournament was always catering to and designed to offer the most challenging layout to the players and spectators came as an afterthought. What did they do differently this time?

Are you implying they're pushing the more premium passes, and not really providing much value fore the "base level" pass holders?

If so, I don't know how anybody could notice that unless/until they actually bought a general admission spectator pass for themselves.

Sorry, no, I'm implying that requiring General Admission spectators to take the long way around to walk from hole 3 to 4 and 12 to 13 of fox run was absolutely ridiculous. Instead of maybe a 500 foot walk, it turned that into a 5-10 minute adventure that involved walking backtracking or bushwhacking and missing multiple shots.

 

[Sewer bill]

I totally misinterpreted your "how is that not exactly the case though" post. I thought you were responding more to the first half of his post where he said "DGPT is hellbent on ensuring everyone, that the only people who matter in disc golf are a couple hundred pro players and a couple cashflow recipients."

In terms of how is that not exactly the case re: the spectators as an afterthought, you have to consider that at the level they are attempting to bring the sport to - where the greatest number of competitors can make a living off of their work, they are essentially creating an entertainment product every bit as much as they are creating a competition product. The spectators on site need to be taken care of, as their ability to be present for the big moments is integral to the impression of spectacle for the broader viewing audience. If you're not creating a great experience, encouraging the year over year growth of that in-person audience, you're harming the long term product that is at the core of the competitors' earnings.

It shouldn't be the first consideration and probably not the second or third, the competitive aspect is obviously number one, but it can't be an afterthought.

I think I'm just a relic of disc golf at this point. I was under the impression we are already miles ahead of where we used to be, companies can afford to have custom wrapped vans and production companies to film and edit to advertise their pros. We went from rough it in the rain hobo disc golfer to high end 3 ac unit 10kw generator van dweller airbnb in like 15 years. What is the goal for an event like worlds vs where it is now?

I'm all for pros getting paid more money and actually paying spotters and other roles that shouldn't be volunteers but I think the compromise of trying to force it into being a spectator sport will take away from what could be in terms of the actual course being played which is why we're here. I'm also a big proponent of letting people sign waivers and lining up group b rally style if that's what they want.

 

[ChrisWoj]

I think I'm just a relic of disc golf at this point. I was under the impression we are already miles ahead of where we used to be, companies can afford to have custom wrapped vans and production companies to film and edit to advertise their pros. We went from rough it in the rain hobo disc golfer to high end 3 ac unit 10kw generator van dweller airbnb in like 15 years. What is the goal for an event like worlds vs where it is now?

I'm all for pros getting paid more money and actually paying spotters and other roles that shouldn't be volunteers but I think the compromise of trying to force it into being a spectator sport will take away from what could be in terms of the actual course being played which is why we're here. I'm also a big proponent of letting people sign waivers and lining up group b rally style if that's what they want.

I don't think we'd be where we are WITHOUT the compromise of trying to force it into being a spectator sport. It doesn't have to be, but that is one direction to go. So far, we're on the road in that direction. If the DGPT wants to keep going in that direction, they've gotta keep pushing on improving the spectator experience.

 

[Sewer bill]

I don't think we'd be where we are WITHOUT the compromise of trying to force it into being a spectator sport. It doesn't have to be, but that is one direction to go. So far, we're on the road in that direction. If the DGPT wants to keep going in that direction, they've gotta keep pushing on improving the spectator experience.

That's a good point. Kind of a bummer to think of all the absolutely amazing disc golf courses that will inevitably need to be excluded or drastically modified to suit this direction though.

 

[ChrisWoj]

That's a good point. Kind of a bummer to think of all the absolutely amazing disc golf courses that will inevitably need to be excluded or drastically modified to suit this direction though.

The bummer would be the drastically modified, not so much those excluded from the tour. Not every badass course needs to be on tour, as much as I love watching video of badass courses being played. My biggest fear is for the courses that may be designed in ways that compromise what their land could be used for in order to fit in a spectator friendly experience.

 

[Sewer bill]

The bummer would be the drastically modified, not so much those excluded from the tour. Not every badass course needs to be on tour, as much as I love watching video of badass courses being played. My biggest fear is for the courses that may be designed in ways that compromise what their land could be used for in order to fit in a spectator friendly experience.

I think the best compromise to add more spectators to already awesome courses would be tree canopy walks like they have in Myakka state park. I helped my dad survey the original one and you could fit 300 people on it. You could have people packed up into the trees like an ewok village spectating the action below without making the course mediocre by trying to make everything visible horizontally.

 

[ChrisWoj]

I think the best compromise to add more spectators to already awesome courses would be tree canopy walks like they have in Myakka state park. I helped my dad survey the original one and you could fit 300 people on it. You could have people packed up into the trees like an ewok village spectating the action below without making the course mediocre by trying to make everything visible horizontally.

If I ever hit the powerball I'll bring your dad on to consult, promise.


Honestly - my entire thought on this is that it is overall a good thing. The waxing popularity will lead to the rate of course installs increasing (hopefully in sustainable ways, see: golf's loss of courses since the 1990s boom). I'm hopeful that the sheer number of new courses will result in the number of good options increasing even if the properties aren't maximized for great play generally.