~400' BH and ~325' FH Help

[slowplastic]

That's an interesting way to think about it. I first swung a golf club when I was 4, so even though I'm not a good golfer a lot of the fundamentals are ingrained in me. I feel that wrist hinge in the backswing as a factor of how far into the backswing I go, but I see what you mean when I consider going past horizontal.

Would you then move the ball/impact zone farther ahead on a one handed swing vs. a two handed swing? It's interesting, if I swing two handed, then try the same arc but with only the lead hand, it feels pinned/collapsed against my chest in comparison even though it's in the same place. The rear arm needing to swing through really changes where the natural arc will be, now that I am feeling how to let a one handed swing naturally flow wider.

 

[RandyC]

That grip weirds me out, is it similiar to lead hand grip in golf. Kinda looks like it ?

 

[sidewinder22]

That's an interesting way to think about it. I first swung a golf club when I was 4, so even though I'm not a good golfer a lot of the fundamentals are ingrained in me. I feel that wrist hinge in the backswing as a factor of how far into the backswing I go, but I see what you mean when I consider going past horizontal.

Would you then move the ball/impact zone farther ahead on a one handed swing vs. a two handed swing? It's interesting, if I swing two handed, then try the same arc but with only the lead hand, it feels pinned/collapsed against my chest in comparison even though it's in the same place. The rear arm needing to swing through really changes where the natural arc will be, now that I am feeling how to let a one handed swing naturally flow wider.

Yep, ball more forward as the swing center is different, no longer between the shoulders but through them.

 

[sidewinder22]

That grip weirds me out, is it similiar to lead hand grip in golf. Kinda looks like it ?

That's how I hold the club or hammer. I think Moe Norman used that grip with the thumb on the back of the handle.

 

[Hoeschel]

With a disc in my hand just going through practice swings, it seems weird. It feels like there's not as much compression/bend of all the levers I'm used to, like I won't get the same spin. And like the power is going to happen so late.

With a hammer it feels very leveraged and strong, but with a light disc that I'm so used to having snap out there it feels odd. I do trust it's going to work, and may be quite an adjustment, but it's very different from what I've been doing.

Was the same for me and also why i posted those prethrow-routines. Now, that you know where and how to accelerate, you can start there and skip the setup. Since you have no momentum coming in, its easier with light-weight discs. However, the nice thing is you don't need to actually have anything in your hand, you can just try to whip your hand through like Simon does.

 

[Hoeschel]

In an actual throw, i don't feel the disc swinging away from me or doing anything else. it just kind of pops into existence at the moment i accelerate it.

 

[Hoeschel]

I think most people misunderstand wrist extension, as literally going from flexion to extension or flicking the wrist open. What I feel as wrist extension is the wrist or thumb being as far away as possible from my center. That means my wrist is neutral, not flexion or extension because either direction takes my thumb back toward my center. That also means my wrist will be ulnar deviated some(not max) so the tip of the thumb extends as far away as possible from my center. The arm/wrist will rotate through to keep extending the thumb/disc level or nose down through.

Interesting, i'll have to try that way of gripping/throwing.

What it feels like for me is that the wrist is quite loose. It does not really move, but my forearm changes direction, so the wrist flexes. Then, at the hit, i feel a lot of force working on the wrist. Resisting that force pushes the wrist back into a neutral position.

I like the feedback i get from this. I also think that it allows for more(earlier?) turn towards the target, making it easier to aim.

Do you think flexing the wrist this way is bad or just unnecessary?

 

[deyo7]

Ok, tried to follow exact instructions.

https://vimeo.com/295082062

https://vimeo.com/295081795

https://vimeo.com/295081795^^^^^^URL

Grip vid is spot on for most part, but I'm really not trying to use the wrist in that fashion of ulnar deviation either. Everything else pounds the hammer with the wrist tightening to transfer that force through it, literally like pounding a nail, but swinging through it without that blowback of the nail/wall.

I think most people misunderstand wrist extension, as literally going from flexion to extension or flicking the wrist open. What I feel as wrist extension is the wrist or thumb being as far away as possible from my center. That means my wrist is neutral, not flexion or extension because either direction takes my thumb back toward my center. That also means my wrist will be ulnar deviated some(not max) so the tip of the thumb extends as far away as possible from my center. The arm/wrist will rotate through to keep extending the thumb/disc level or nose down through.

I would say the grip is diagonal to the disc, the knuckles go diagonal to the disc plane. Same thing when you use an actual hammer grip, your knuckles will be diagonal across the handle and the index will hook the handle higher than the rest of the fingers. If your knuckles are all the same to the handle it puts the weight and wrist out of control and weak. You want to have control of the weight/head/nose all the way start to finish.

In the hammer swing, keep your weightshift 1" so your front foot doesn't need to pivot/spin out during the swing or just keep your front foot planted. You are also curling the hammer inward somehow, either too much shoulder or elbow or wrist bend happen there. Keep the wrist/thumb/forearm/handle straight inline to each other, no curl.

Wow guys - good work. Slowplastic, thank you for posting the video on how you were previously holding disc to new. I was doing the exact same thing and always felt something was wrong - the video and your explanation really helped see and understand.

SW, nice clarification on wrist extension.

With this new grip orientation it almost feels natural to place thumb a little more towards middle of disc as opposed to near rim because it feels like it has really good control of opposite edge there. Similar to Eagle but maybe a little more forward. When I had tried this before with incorrect orientation it didn't go super well. As I'm thinking this through, this is more likely to create nose up throws, huh?

I just watched your grip video. You pinch index with thumb near rim. Are you almost using the rim as something for your thumb to push against? I see how you can still get good control and leverage here.

 

[sidewinder22]

Interesting, i'll have to try that way of gripping/throwing.

What it feels like for me is that the wrist is quite loose. It does not really move, but my forearm changes direction, so the wrist flexes. Then, at the hit, i feel a lot of force working on the wrist. Resisting that force pushes the wrist back into a neutral position.

I like the feedback i get from this. I also think that it allows for more(earlier?) turn towards the target, making it easier to aim.

Do you think flexing the wrist this way is bad or just unnecessary?

Yep, a little of both.

 

[sidewinder22]

Wow guys - good work. Slowplastic, thank you for posting the video on how you were previously holding disc to new. I was doing the exact same thing and always felt something was wrong - the video and your explanation really helped see and understand.

SW, nice clarification on wrist extension.

With this new grip orientation it almost feels natural to place thumb a little more towards middle of disc as opposed to near rim because it feels like it has really good control of opposite edge there. Similar to Eagle but maybe a little more forward. When I had tried this before with incorrect orientation it didn't go super well. As I'm thinking this through, this is more likely to create nose up throws, huh?

I just watched your grip video. You pinch index with thumb near rim. Are you almost using the rim as something for your thumb to push against? I see how you can still get good control and leverage here.

Yep, it feels like my thumb is through the flight plate and pushing on the inside edge of the rim.

 

[Hoeschel]

This confuses me. If i hold the disc like that, i feel like i'm in the middle of the two ways the wrist can move and even just going through the shot in slow motion it kind of hurts my wrist unless i keep it really stiff. But if i have to keep it stiff, then what are they doing?:

Maybe my wrist is just weird, idk.

edit: images don't show up, here are the links:

https://imgur.com/iq2PvHM

https://imgur.com/tWH9wKF

 

[RandyC]

This confuses me. If i hold the disc like that, i feel like i'm in the middle of the two ways the wrist can move and even just going through the shot in slow motion it kind of hurts my wrist unless i keep it really stiff. But if i have to keep it stiff, then what are they doing?:

Maybe my wrist is just weird, idk.

edit: images don't show up, here are the links:

https://imgur.com/iq2PvHM

https://imgur.com/tWH9wKF

this question confuses me, whats weird about the wrist in there?

 

[sidewinder22]

No images?

 

[Hoeschel]

this question confuses me, whats weird about the wrist in there?

The wrist is very much flexed

 

[Hoeschel]

No images?

 

[sidewinder22]

Those are short touch shots.

 

[slowplastic]

I'm glad I'm not the only one who has been doing something different with their grip and assumed it was fine.

If I'm lucky I'll get to throw a bit later, but until then I want to see if I'm understanding the nose now...

So hold the disc straight in front of you. Hand will be at 3 o'clock, farthest part away from you is 12.

With my old hand orientation, I felt like I had control of the weight at 12. I felt like 12 was also the nose at release of the disc. I had the disc tilted "down" by like 5 degrees relative to my forearm, so that means the 12/nose part was lower than the 6 part of the disc. I tried to keep the left/right so 6/3 as level as possible relative to my forearm and hand, to get OAT-free releases.

Now with this wrist angle, I feel like I have control of the weight closer to 10ish. But is the nose now at 9-10 o'clock? I feel like the 12/front of the disc is more level with my forearm or even slightly up, which in the past would have been guaranteed nose up flights. But, does the left side/9 side now sling out and become the nose angle to correct this? Or, am I set up incorrectly and still need that 12 part of the disc set nose down in my grip before the swing?

 

[slowplastic]

Those are short touch shots.

That position Eagle is in now finally feels very intuitive to me. I could never figure out how to be facing that far forward before, with the shoulder wide but arm not slung yet.

That should be good for 350' with a putter for him with height I assume heh

 

[slowplastic]

This confuses me. If i hold the disc like that, i feel like i'm in the middle of the two ways the wrist can move and even just going through the shot in slow motion it kind of hurts my wrist unless i keep it really stiff. But if i have to keep it stiff, then what are they doing?:

I think the answer for me is I've been holding a hammer with the wrong wrist alignment until now :|

The couple times every few years I use one to hit something.

Good tip for SW: Don't assume anyone knows how to do even the simple thing you're relating the throw to correctly.

 

[sidewinder22]

This is the answer Philo gave me when I asked about the thumb and wrist almost 7 years ago. Several other top pros talk about this the same way.

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