~400' BH and ~325' FH Help

[slowplastic]

Left shoulder/elbow and getting hip turn instead is slightly improved. Left foot behind step is still past body CoM. I realize I need to keep working on that. But I felt something new that I want to make sure is the right track.

In the pre-shot swings here, I can really feel the opposite edge of the disc, like my hips/butt are counterweighting the opposite side right at the instant of the hit point. It causes the disc to pivot and the edge wants to swing directly away from me.

If I concentrate on this feel in the throw, it feels like the disc just launches straight out from me and down the line, not like I'm backhand chopping or pulling sideways or anything.

This shot was a low power putter that carried so straight and easy. It feels like how SW has said to use the disc's mass to aim the shot. So I think this is the right track, aside from my balance issues. I think part of what made this possible is not drifting as far left to get in my own way. I'm still not perfectly over the leg, but I made a noticeable improvement.

The shot before this I almost hit chains on a 270' ceiling restricted putter shot...typically my putter would slide up to the pin instead of buzzing the tower and going deep so easily. Really showed me the disc pushing itself away from my hand in a new way.

I just want to see if aiming for the hips pulling the opposite edge directly at the hit point is what to try to feel.

https://vimeo.com/348483913

 

[sidewinder22]

I like that pre-shot routine. I don't let the disc pivot, just feel where the weight wants to go sling out. Your rear foot is spinning/sliding out on those pre-swings. Keep toes on ground and heel goes forward/up.

 

[slowplastic]

Oh yeah I can see my back foot doing that. At least it's not happening in the actual throw but I'll be aware of it.

I can feel how in a FH pre-swing I would sling through that hit, rather than pivot entirely at one point. So I can feel the difference in BH doing what you said and is in those gifs, compared to letting the disc pivot instantaneously. But I do still feel it want to push/arc forward, I just don't pinch and pivot it all at one point.

Do you actively do anything with the thumb or wrist, or just concentrate on feeling how the disc edge wants to sling and make sure you are braced/counterweighted for that mass? I know you talk about how the thumb feels like it pushes and points out at release, I'm just not sure if it's just a feel or if you are actively adding with it.

 

[sidewinder22]

Your front foot is also sliding around in those instead of being bolted to the ground. I think it's a width of stance/balance thing, harder to see in your actual throw, but is there.

I feel the whole grip more in slower practice swings and where the wrist wants to waggle open and really accelerate the sling the back end of the disc/weight thru without really pivoting disc in grip, and thumb will be pointed at target with wrist locked which is where the disc would complete pivot out to target.

During the throw I feel the leverage/weight more in the thumb, probably because it's a lot "heavier" when everything speeds up and the wrist is tighter spring.

 

[slowplastic]

I made incremental improvements with stance leverage, feeling like my plant foot is just slightly in closer so I'm on top of it, and like I'm really gripping off of my left foot. I'll keep working with this for a little bit. I'm concerned about my forearm not always swinging in on plane with my upper arm toward the "power pocket" position, but I'll give it a bit more time. My upper arm is following my shoulders more consistently on the "not flat" swing release, and my hand is rotating through rather than extending open like on my prior flat swings.

This is good though, I had more ace runs in one day today than ever I think with a few metal hits. Turnovers and annies are so much easier than ever too. It takes a lot less effort to throw a Comet turnover than a hard OS FH fairway driver, and that definitely adds up over a round. I just finally have the confidence to throw that shot with a good success rate now.

I'm really thinking about keeping my left arm/shoulder forward of my spine as I come forward toward the plant, I can feel the difference when it works and it gives my torso a better tilt I think. I'll keep at that and once I can think about it, try to not have too far of a left foot step.

 

[sidewinder22]

Right shoulder swings back in backswing the same as forward with longer than left shoulder swing. Left shoulder feels centered back and forth, right shoulder swings back and forth wider, like it would be wider all the way around.

Left shoulder centered little arc during swing. Which swings and speeds up right shoulder forward into long wide arc during swing.
Then right shoulder makes centered little arc from hit and left shoulder gets pulled thru into wide arc after release.

 

[slowplastic]

Very cool image. Where the left and right shoulder paths cross each other on the purple/yellow lines also makes sense to how it feels to me sometimes. The right shoulder is at this point roughly as the weight lands on the plant foot, and then I can think about getting the left shoulder to go through this same position...and it gets there just after disc release.

Seeing how the left shoulder has a symmetrically similar long path after release clears some stuff up for me too.

 

[sidewinder22]

Top left pic is from the top of the backswing/plant.
Right shoulder hits that cross point closer to disc at left shoulder.
This shows the relative speeds better with the dots, right shoulder starts fast and slows.

 

[slowplastic]

I'm getting more used to this swing plane, and it's feeling easier than ever to throw. I'm feeling the leverage on shots and like there will be more in the tank when I am able to get to that same or better leveraged position but with more weight/momentum.

I'm chipping away at the X-step trying to get a later backswing after the forward pump and to get more forward with the torso to the plant, as well as to stay in front of my left step in the hop. I can feel it's not quite as balanced as my standstill but I can feel the difference. So that's why I'm posting a standstill, because I feel it's more representative of what I'm trying to do right now.

I feel like I'm getting my lead shoulder farther forward and my torso is leveraging the shoulder, which is leveraging the shot. I'm getting my rear arm in front of my spine/hip during the shot but I'm still not sure if it's doing a "good" thing or not? Is my forearm/disc still moving up too much instead of staying below my elbow as I come forward? For reference I was throwing standstill mids like this 300+ on hyzer.

https://vimeo.com/352146721

 

[sidewinder22]

Looks like a reverse pivot of sorts. You push over the top in the backswing and crash down and back on the front leg.

Look how much further my front shoulder swings back to front and how wide the arm releases. Your front shoulder almost rotates in place and arm collapses as your chest over-rotates. I think your left foot is also moving to the left instead of the right. Both parts of Hershyzer should help, leading with the butt and second part wall drill with rear leg going behind to right - I talk about the the front shoulder sliding over to the right when the foot goes around to left like you are doing. Your front knee is way ahead of your front shoulder, want to feel like you swing over the knee.

 

[slowplastic]

Thanks, I've been trying to get to that right shoulder forward position and as soon as I saw those marked up images I could feel exactly how I'm doing that in the throw.

Watched those videos again and got back to basics. I can feel it already for the fix while swinging a hammer. I have to land butt first while turned back and then let that clear me forward. This gets me to that rear knee and elbow coming forward at the same time position, and then my lower body can counterweight my arm swinging away from me. It feels more extended and delayed again with better counterweight instead of continual rotation of the body. I've felt this in the past but not with this better swing plane.

Initially I thought "oh no what have I introduced into my swing" but I think this will be pretty fast to fix that part. The throws keep feeling easier on my body, I can't even imagine what high level form is like.

 

[UhhNegative]

Perfect illustration of the door frame drill on the top pictures :clap:

 

[slowplastic]

I felt an improved weight shift today by delaying everything. It feels like I wait for catching my weight to bring the disc forward to my core or right hip, then my hips can counterweight my body swinging out or away from me. It feels like the swing is just forward, continuing on from how my weight brought the disc straight ahead.

I had a couple of 300' putter standstill shots like that, and some 350' Comets with X-step. My balance is worse in the X-step, I still tip a bit and/because I stride too far behind with the left foot, but it's feeling smoother and smoother. This clip is more in the 275' putter range but I can feel the spin difference with the wider arm, this is a flippy putter and it handled more wind than normal.

This is the best my swing plane has looked, but is my torso still rotating too much before/while releasing the arm?

https://vimeo.com/354314639

 

[sidewinder22]

Definitely looks the best. Camera angle looks a little off, like centered on teepad rather than hit.

You appear to be aiming your release off to the right in the setup with your little pre-swings, and too open with the back foot/in the way. When I do my little pre-swings they release targetward, never off to the right of the front foot, unless I'm making a big pre-swing that goes all the way around.

I'd work on Inside Swing Drill and moving your back foot over out of the way to open up the backswing/closed stance. I think you are setup with the back foot in the way of the backswing and that is why you always stride toward the left to try and make room the opposite way, but moves you into the swing and causes you to plant flat footed.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FWasFdvnGio&t=368s

 

[slowplastic]

Should I be aware of extending the leg to really drive the shot? Not talking full lockout Kevin Jones way, but should I be feeling the front thigh and hip power the swing forward/outward, rather than just enough resistance to maintain balance on the plant?

 

[slowplastic]

I guess this is my answer here: https://youtu.be/EvbcIv4SqP0?t=158

I think I'm getting close to getting it, things are moving in the right direction for sure and it feels very simple to throw my prior good/great distance ranges, especially with slower discs.

 

[sidewinder22]

Yep, pump it. I think Hogan Power Move and Slow Motion Drill will help with your balance.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K8p9SHlqyuU#t=2m49s

 

[slowplastic]

I need time to make this feel completely normal, keep opening up the room for the backswing and also make sure I really land hershyzer/butt first to then feel like I body check to bring the disc forward, then throw. Rather than shoulder check feeling as I come forward which is likely a reverse pivot, or at minimum a loss of power. But I just wanted to see if there's anything glaring here before I try to work with this feeling for a little bit and see where that takes me.

It feels easy and flowing though. This is a 300' putter, with wind too. I'd really like to get to 350' with putters and see where my drivers are at when that happens.

I'm thinking I can have more room for the swing still, land more butt first and committed with the rear arm shifting into the brace, and wait longer to get the shoulders forward to bring the disc to the launch position...basically tweaking everything in a better direction.

https://vimeo.com/354970934

 

[sidewinder22]

Your front foot is striding backwards and then turning open into plant. Should be moving more lateral - kick the can with side of foot/instep, not your heel. Note how my stance in Reciprocating Dingle Arm matches Dave's mid stride. You need to change your balance on your rear foot/leg to do that.

 

[slowplastic]

Well, that makes the game easier. I threw several of the best shots I've ever thrown on a course I play a ton, and lots of ace runs. Also lots of searching for discs that were 30' or so farther than I was looking.

This is a good starting point for me to keep working on this balance from, I still see issues but I think I'm getting the groundwork of this balance so I can hone it rather than completely change it.

This post helped a lot: https://www.dgcoursereview.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3487958&postcount=213

Also I tried to feel how I shift and balance on my left foot when throwing RHFH, or throw a ball, or swing a bat righty. Then I tried to feel this balance in my RHBH backswing and then in the X-step. In the X-step it felt like I had to move my heel under me by bringing it to the left, so finally that line for the kick the ball just worked out. I know my right foot still turns in a bit, but I'm feeling on some throws how to let my butt/body turn at the end bring my heel closer to the target as I plant, so that my body turn causes the foot to rotate closed. I think that is the correct concept?

Again I can see this needs to be honed in, but this is definitely an improvement. This is a Felon at medium power flat, and it went 340'.

https://vimeo.com/355196548