A few vids for critique

[CaddyJeff]

So here are a few videos I made earlier today. In a few of them I throw 7 or 8 discs, the first 4 are drivers, the rest are mid range and I do not throw them as hard. The other videos I only throw 4 discs in are all drivers.

Champion Yellow disc = Boss
Red = Teebird
2 oranges = Valkyries 175g(black stamp) and 165g(white stamp)

I have only been playing for a little less than a month and this is the first time I have seen myself throw. I already see a few errors I made, but I would still like the input of some people who know what they are doing. I have never played with anyone who throws RHBH, I have only seen it on youtube or read about it here.

The wide angle lens didn't capture the disc very well, but the few decent throws I had maxed out about 325' maybe a bit more. Anyways, here they are.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y5I7X5X_dHk&feature=plcp - Rear angle 1

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O8Zv92xDLlE&feature=plcp - Rear angle 2

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lBUBnzBr3RE&feature=plcp - Parallel angle 1

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HylcfTE71GY&feature=plcp - Parallel angle 2

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oadbeXH4InQ&feature=plcp - Front angle


Thanks in advance!

- Jeff

PS - JR I think I figured out a way to get a top angle, I'll try it tomorrow

 

[JR]

Busy now i'll get back to this later. You'll unlock a lot more power by reaching back so that your x step and plant step land so that the heels point at the target. So that you can reach the disc back way farther adding a quarter to the arm swing distance=more time to accelerate=more speed. You don't use the hips enough. The hips should twist to the right of neutral position very late in the throw and into the follow through.

 

[JR]

The shoulders too were free riding when they should turn even more to the right than the hips. Here is a sure fire tip to improve your scores by improved accuracy and most of all consistency: Your running direction and final step planting position changed relative to the line you were running on see my signature. You landed the right foot flat footed. That is a big no no and it makes the falling down to the right problem even worse than just planting to the left of the line you were running on. You aren't really chopping the elbow straight as fast as you could and that is something you need to train consciously. A good tip is to keep the arm muscles as loose as possible as long as possible. As loose as they are after yawning when you first wake up. Boiled pasta loose. The muscles should be given the order move fast not lift a lot of weight. The latter makes the whole diameter of the arm muscles tense up and work as a dampener to the arm motion. The muscles will get tense automatically late in the throw in a move quick commanded motion where for most of the motion the outer layers (the fastest part responsible for the pull the arm away from a hot thing reflex) are doing the moving and acceleration of the arm. That leads to a more explosive arm acceleration.

 

[CaddyJeff]

Thanks so much man. I will work on it and try to get another video up once I get some practice in.

 

[CaddyJeff]

Okay so I just went and threw for about an hour or so, I understand that I'm not supposed to land flat footed and I believe that I am supposed to land on my toe and pivot on my heel? But concentrate on the toe at first and the heel pivot will follow? What are some drills that can help me with this? When I started throwing backhand, I just watched other people do it and that is just kinda what my body did when I tried to mimick the throw.

I realized today that I was unconsciously trying to take it easy on my arm and shoulder since I had been playing so often when I took the video. I think it had a lot to do with my lack of arm motion.

Today was one of my most successful and consistent days throwing discs. The boiled pasta analogy stuck in my head and helped significantly! THANK YOU!

- Jeff

 

[cubeofsoup]

Okay so I just went and threw for about an hour or so, I understand that I'm not supposed to land flat footed and I believe that I am supposed to land on my toe and pivot on my heel? But concentrate on the toe at first and the heel pivot will follow? What are some drills that can help me with this?

I used to go play rounds alone and when walking to my next shot, I would repeatedly do my x-step and plant including the toe-heel-toe pivot. After doing that constantly for a few rounds it is just habit now. To start to get the feel, do your x-step and stop when you are just starting to plant your right foot for the throw. You should have most of your weight on your left foot and just your toe on the ground for your right foot. While in your reach back, you drive forward with your shoulder muscles and grind your heel into the ground, then boom, you are braced with nice alignment and weight distribution and your heel/right hip/right shoulder are the axis for you to unload all of your momentum. (see video for better instruction of this)

Dave Feldberg is showing someone the toe to heel motion along with the bracing of your side. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lUOq09T2q54&t=45m22s

 

[CaddyJeff]

Thanks, that is exactly what I was looking for as far as a visual of what I need to be doing. I feel like I'm planting and throwing at the same time kinda like you throw a baseball, instead of planting and then throwing. I have been messing with the settings on my camera and realized I can record at 120 fps so that is what I am going to try today is break down my throw by frame and try to see exactly what i'm doing right/wrong.

Its so helpful to have a resource like this to help new comers like myself. You guys seriously rock!

 

[CaddyJeff]

Okay so my arm is sore as crap today(i forgot to ice last night), but I was anxious to get out to a field and throw a few discs to see if I could understand what yall have been telling me. None of these throws are very pretty, and I feel like some of my other mechanics fell off a bit due to me concentrating on my plant foot, but here is a quick video, just curious if I am on the right track as far as the pivot goes. Some throws are better than others.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ut8MO-Krakc


Thanks again

PS - Still looks like im not getting my hips behind the throws, any tips?

 

[ReDisculous]

Next time you practice, I'd slow your footwork way down, bend your knees a little more, take a shorter plant step and then really work on getting your arm longer/straighter/closer to the target before initiating your follow through.

I see what you are trying to do when you pause at reachback, but it looks like when you do it your weight is evenly distributed between both feet(even when I see you lean back into your reachback from that position). Next time bend your left knee and get ALL of your weight on it, (so that you could actually lift your plant foot off the ground if you wanted too) with just the toe of your plant foot touching the ground. Then PUSH into your plant with the left /rear foot. Your idea was a good one but the way you were doing it was robbing you of half the weight shift. Power into the plant comes not from reaching really far with your plant foot (I still catch myself doing this from time to time), but from pushing really hard with your rear foot. When you finish, your rear leg should be straight, from the push, and your plant leg knee should be bent, to allow your weight to be over it.

 

[JR]

That and slowing down helps in involving the hips and the shoulders. You do need to give a conscious command from the brain to turn to the right but not forever. It'll become automated with enough drilling. The heel pivot at that speed is ok if the ball of the foot is raised a bit from the lowest attempts but when you use full speed the timing and right leg muscle tension requirements increase. Only practice teaches you how to do it properly so eventually you need to add speed. Before you add speed to the max you should definitely slow down as long as it takes to get the mechanics and proper timing of the commands to twist the hips and turning the shoulders. Automation probably comes later. I hope that you'll get the mechanics right before that because automaton can take a lot of throw and time. Months. You straighten the elbow too early try to push the elbow 3-5" closer to the target before straightening the elbow to see if you get a faster snap.

 

[cubeofsoup]

Something about your posture looks off. JR any ideas? I feel like you need to be more stacked over the heel pivot, seems like your butt is too far back or something. Wait for more feedback from people who know more than I do.

Look at this thread http://www.discgolfreview.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=24931 and see my post comparing the OPs form to E-Mac and watch the video. Notice how everything pivots nicely around the plant and there is a nice whip motion of his arm, smooth reach back, point with the elbow and unload through the hit, follow through, STILL PLANTED, and as the hips/shoulders arm all come around and finish the big follow through, THEN the step happens.

 

[JR]

The plant step was to the right of the running line tilting him anhyzer from the foot up and too little muscle tightness in the core posture keeping muscles lead to even more anny from the torso tilting to the right from the hips. So more lower back and stomach muscle tension and planting on the line you're running on will make the flights leave flat if you don't use a flipping disc.

 

[CaddyJeff]

Again, I genuinely appreciate you guys taking the time to look at these videos and help me. I come from a baseball background and I think that may be having some effect on how I throw the disc. The x-step came somewhat naturally due to the fact that it is basically the opposite of a running baseball throw. However the more I look at the videos and still frames of my throws vs others with correct technique I think I may be trying to throw the disc like a baseball, which is probably why I am off balance after pretty much every throw. Next time I get some field work in I may scrap my throw completely and start again. Not that I think that my throw is that bad, I just think that eventually(if not now), I will hit a cap on how accurate and powerfully I can throw the disc like I currently am.

I am heading out of town this weekend, but I am going to attempt to get some practice in and I will try to get a video up sometime next week and see what you guys think.

 

[sidewinder22]

Adding to all the above you are trying to reach too far back and too tense. Should be loose and relaxed at the top of the backswing like you can stand in that position all day. Let your body bring the disc/arm back and forth as if you were swinging a sledgehammer back and forth. From the transition to the forward swing you push from the rear heel instead of from the inside part of your foot more toward the ball/toes. You are pushing your shoulders and leaving the hips behind. You want to push the hips keeping the core intact with the shoulders.

 

[CaddyJeff]

Something about your posture looks off. JR any ideas? I feel like you need to be more stacked over the heel pivot, seems like your butt is too far back or something. Wait for more feedback from people who know more than I do.

Look at this thread http://www.discgolfreview.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=24931 and see my post comparing the OPs form to E-Mac and watch the video. Notice how everything pivots nicely around the plant and there is a nice whip motion of his arm, smooth reach back, point with the elbow and unload through the hit, follow through, STILL PLANTED, and as the hips/shoulders arm all come around and finish the big follow through, THEN the step happens.

The reason my posture is off is because I'm trying to push the disc rather than "pull" it, I guess thats the best way I know to explain it. So instead of me pivoting around my right side, I am just adding forward momentum to a sorry excuse for a snap and then trying to add a spin finish in there somewhere. Its taking my shoulders and hips completely out of it. Its kind of like when a baseball batter tries to swing at a pitch he isnt ready for, and steps forward and swings at the same time(I'm not sure if any of you are baseball fans, but that is the best analogy I could think of). He ends up counter balancing the momentum of the bat with the weight of his body, instead of using the weight of his body for momentum for the bat.

Just a few hours ago I threw a few dozen discs in a field and I can DEFINITELY tell the difference between the two. It still feels awkward and I could be completely wrong on my thought process, but I'll know more when I can get myself on camera.

I watched the clip of Avery throwing in slow mo over and over again and I guess something finally clicked.

 

[JR]

The center of the pivot is not at the right side put a little forward. Right heel through the shin and knee extending the line through the right arm pit is the center of the pivot. Roughly because the plant step length varies with varying speed.

 

[CaddyJeff]

Okay I think I might be making progress. I may have reverted back to a few old habits in some of the throws, but there are a few in there that might not be too bad.
I changed the timing of my plant step a bit which makes everything feel a bit awkward, but when I get it right I can tell the difference. I probably need to do some more right pec drills as I think I am taking off of the line too early.

However, my disc tends to wobble out of my hand when I feel that snap, is this because I am not keeping the disc level through out the pull?




The standstill @:58? Am I practicing correct form at least?

 

[JR]

That 58 second throw was pretty good for an approach shot. The hips point in the same direction as the knees all the time. Late in the throw and in the follow through should have the hips point to the right of the knees and the shoulders should move even more to the right of the hips. I couldn't see for sure with the grass how flat footed you were but it would be much better to raise the ball of the right foot for the foot pivot. The throws with the run ups were all annied in running direction (see my signature) and the stomach and lower back muscles need to be tighter when the plant step lands to eliminate your tendency to tilt to the right at the hips. You are making progress good job!

Regarding the wobble your arm drops lower in the follow through than in the earlier parts of the throw and that tilts the disc so it wobbles as it spins. The follow through should happen on the same plane as the early part of the throw. Rotating the thumb down right after the rip cleans up the release a lot and allows the shoulder blade to move much more unimpeded by the back muscles. That almost doubles the arm follow through movement range thus easing troubles coming from short follow throughs. Like a sudden arm stop when the shoulder blade jams against upper back muscles and the upper body and the arm bounces changing the angle that the disc leaves at and pulling the fingers at the disc into a different direction than intended inducing torque in another plane than around the center of the disc. Also known as off axis torque. A little more wrist tension can protect against wrist rolls that also cause OAT=off axis torque.

 

[CaddyJeff]

The throws with the run ups were all annied in running direction (see my signature)...

Should I be practicing just straight shots? Or mix it up?

and the stomach and lower back muscles need to be tighter when the plant step lands to eliminate your tendency to tilt to the right at the hips.

So my hips should be rotating towards my target instead of tilting? I just want a visual of what you mean by tighten stomach and lower back muscles. I think it is that old habit of "pushing" the disc.

 

[JR]

Flat shots are the most difficult to perform and give the best visual cue as to a form failure because everyone can distinguish a flat and a non flat shots. Also look at the placement of the disc on a flat vs non flat shot. Flat shots have the least margin of error angle wise and the most missing distance per a degree of miss. Especially so with an understable disc and headwinds. Eventually you need to train all angles. But for form changing and improving the flat shots are the best self diagnostic tool when you follow the flight of the disc it can often tell you where you made a mistake.

Standing at attention is what i'm getting at with added balance maintaining muscle tightness. You should be straight up like the letter I. now you lean the the right from the hips like this: /