A quandary into the realm of the overstable control driver

[Moose33]

Hello, my name is Moose and I love OS drivers. From the mainstream world of Destroyers and Giants to the more obscure Rasks and Spirits I've tried and loved most of them.

The disc that changed my game forever was the Champ Firebird. I came into disc golf in the early 2010s where the FAF opaque runs were easily available, pre LJ and maybe not as beautiful in the hand, but the perfect control driver for FH or headwinds BH and they OH great also. I thought I would have a best friend for life.

As time went on however the Firebird has seen several different runs, some like the pearly ones from around 2014 with a little shoulde we're still great, and then there were the 2016 domey as heck ones that made me question everything I've ever known.

Today they are somewhere in between, a mild dome, but still in the ballpark of flat to the casual observer. It's an okay disc, but had it been my first Firebird experience it may not have been love at first throw.

I became so dissolutioned with the situation I abandoned them altogether and after trying many discs in that spot(XXX, Motion, Fireball, Spirit, Flick) but they all had their issues, until I got some Ahti, which while not 100% perfect they are a lot like the 2014 pearly Firebirds and are fairly consistent. But I noticed after throwing some 2012 Firebirds back in the bag that a great FB can really not be replaced.

So here is the quandary; to seek the rare "good Firebirds" or do I settle for a good, perhaps more consistent Ahti or maybe even Fireball?

This may just be the ramblings of an addled, obsessive mind, but in similar situations what have you tried?

 

[pjhayes7]

Hello, my name is Moose and I love OS drivers. From the mainstream world of Destroyers and Giants to the more obscure Rasks and Spirits I've tried and loved most of them.

The disc that changed my game forever was the Champ Firebird. I came into disc golf in the early 2010s where the FAF opaque runs were easily available, pre LJ and maybe not as beautiful in the hand, but the perfect control driver for FH or headwinds BH and they OH great also. I thought I would have a best friend for life.

As time went on however the Firebird has seen several different runs, some like the pearly ones from around 2014 with a little shoulde we're still great, and then there were the 2016 domey as heck ones that made me question everything I've ever known.

Today they are somewhere in between, a mild dome, but still in the ballpark of flat to the casual observer. It's an okay disc, but had it been my first Firebird experience it may not have been love at first throw.

I became so dissolutioned with the situation I abandoned them altogether and after trying many discs in that spot(XXX, Motion, Fireball, Spirit, Flick) but they all had their issues, until I got some Ahti, which while not 100% perfect they are a lot like the 2014 pearly Firebirds and are fairly consistent. But I noticed after throwing some 2012 Firebirds back in the bag that a great FB can really not be replaced.

So here is the quandary; to seek the rare "good Firebirds" or do I settle for a good, perhaps more consistent Ahti or maybe even Fireball?

This may just be the ramblings of an addled, obsessive mind, but in similar situations what have you tried?

I know it is not the same, but have you tried Luster Flat Topped Firebirds? I hear they are pretty beefy. Are regular Flat Topped anywhere near as OS as the true FAFs?

I think you should be able to find FAFs still. May require some hunting and a little more money spent, but if that is what you like.

The real question is, why does it seem to be so hard for manufacturers to make true super overstable discs? Or is it that they don't bother because so few people would actually buy them?

 

[jakebake91]

I think to answer your question, you need to ask " do I want to skip a mortgage payment for that perfect disc, or spend $15 on something that will work out just fine."

Unless you are competing for big $$$ at the top of rankings, I think that answer is rather obvious.

 

[DanJon]

Have you tried a DGA Hellfire?

 

[lenfantsuave]

Why do people love flat firebirds so much? Is it a grip thing? I used to throw stack grip forehands until it sprained my middle finger doing it and had to switch to the Sexton pistol grip. Flat firebirds are terrible for this kind of grip, but they're also unworkably overstable.

Rant over. Long story short, the USDGC sexton runs are my favorite "current" run.

 

[slowplastic]

Why do people love flat firebirds so much? Is it a grip thing? I used to throw stack grip forehands until it sprained my middle finger doing it and had to switch to the Sexton pistol grip. Flat firebirds are terrible for this kind of grip, but they're also unworkably overstable.

Rant over. Long story short, the USDGC sexton runs are my favorite "current" run.

Moose throws really really hard FH from what I gather.

For me the champ Firebirds with some dome are actually what I'm used to...can throw them pretty well but have still never ever seen one turn on me. If I want flat feeling grip then I throw a Felon and it's even milder, obviously those can flip more than a Firebird.

I don't need a disc that goes backwards or tries to dig a hole when I throw it.

Oh, the Machete is very OS too, have you tried that Moose? I don't throw hard enough to quantify what is more OS when it gets to that point, but it was in the realm of FAF Firebirds I have thrown.

I've also thrown XXX that weren't all that beefy too, so there's variation with everything.

 

[Moose33]

I think to answer your question, you need to ask " do I want to skip a mortgage payment for that perfect disc, or spend $15 on something that will work out just fine."

Unless you are competing for big $$$ at the top of rankings, I think that answer is rather obvious.

This is more or less the question yes.

And the answer as well lol.

 

[Moose33]

Have you tried a DGA Hellfire?

Yes, and I liked it, but didn't like the grip. Was very hard to get the consistent release angle.

 

[Twmccoy]

Why do people love flat firebirds so much? Is it a grip thing? I used to throw stack grip forehands until it sprained my middle finger doing it and had to switch to the Sexton pistol grip. Flat firebirds are terrible for this kind of grip, but they're also unworkably overstable.

Rant over. Long story short, the USDGC sexton runs are my favorite "current" run.

I'm not really sure I get this either. I'm not a huge Firebird thrower, but I've tossed a couple lately. A Nate Sexton glow, a glow champion, and a regular champion. The Nate Sexton was actually the least stable of the 3. On hard rips it would actually pop flat and glide for a bit. The other two were beef to the max. None of the 3 Firebirds I threw were flat.

I dabble in some overstable discs myself, but generally nothing as overstable as Firebirds. For me they simply don't glide well enough or go far enough to be useful. They work well for short shots into wind that absolutely must end left though.

Honestly, my overstable discs of choice are a Flick and champion XCal. Both will actually stay flat for a bit if you mash them hard enough. Both will also gain decent distance on hard throws. I also used to throw a star Max. That thing was a fairly glideless beef driver too.

Long story short, I prefer faster overstable discs than the Firebird. I want a disc that will glide a bit and get some distance.

If I were to ever look at bagging a REALLLYYY overstable driver I'd probably use a Nuke OS. Those things are absolutely glideless bricks. I've tossed 2 and it really made me feel like I had an inferior arm.

 

[Moose33]

Moose throws really really hard FH from what I gather.

For me the champ Firebirds with some dome are actually what I'm used to...can throw them pretty well but have still never ever seen one turn on me. If I want flat feeling grip then I throw a Felon and it's even milder, obviously those can flip more than a Firebird.

I don't need a disc that goes backwards or tries to dig a hole when I throw it.

Oh, the Machete is very OS too, have you tried that Moose? I don't throw hard enough to quantify what is more OS when it gets to that point, but it was in the realm of FAF Firebirds I have thrown.

I've also thrown XXX that weren't all that beefy too, so there's variation with everything.

I haven't tried the Machete but Discraft wings are usually not as flat across the top of the wing, is the Machete different?

Would also agree there are less Os XXX, I have one that is basically a Tyrant.

 

[Moose33]

Why do people love flat firebirds so much? Is it a grip thing? I used to throw stack grip forehands until it sprained my middle finger doing it and had to switch to the Sexton pistol grip. Flat firebirds are terrible for this kind of grip, but they're also unworkably overstable.

Rant over. Long story short, the USDGC sexton runs are my favorite "current" run.

For me yes, grip and the release angle. for a FH grip the edge of the wing sits flush with the crook of my thumb and forefinger, and that makes the reade feel really clean.

So when I'm hitting tight lines with it I know what it's going to do better since they are just OS enough not to turn.

With the new run I have to think,"well it's going to turn just a bit so I better start it more right" or "better give it some more hyzer so it will go straight to fade"

Jus makes it easier if you have to think less.

 

[slowplastic]

I haven't tried the Machete but Discraft wings are usually not as flat across the top of the wing, is the Machete different?

Would also agree there are less Os XXX, I have one that is basically a Tyrant.

Honestly I don't remember thinking anything when I held it like if it was super flat or noticeable dome or anything. If you're picky then I guess you need to handle one but I don't remember anything in the profile standing out.

In comparison with other Discraft OS stuff, the Flick I found extremely shallow and uncomfortable/sharp and the Predator had weird curves/nose and was uncomfortable to me. I am usually pretty open to slight hand feel variations but those two I didn't like.

 

[Grippenripp]

I feel like I regularly see FBs with tourney stamps marked "flat top". Grab a few a doze and you'll be set. Am I mistaken in assuming these "flat tops" are different?

 

[brutalbrutus]

They need to release a stiff proton or maybe even an eclipse Motion for you Moose...

 

[jtrod]

How about the Legacy Enemy or Fighter.

 

[GripEnemy]

You might have me slightly beat in distance but I'm up there with you. Only recently started to bag the Firebird even though I've thrown them plenty over the years. FAF are not readily available but have you considered flattening the "casual observer" ones yourself? I currently own 6 or 8 and though only one or two are TRULY flat, nearly all of them are as overstable as the others. Fix the feel and boom - cheap FAFs.

Tylerc will insist it makes them less overstable (not sorry for calling you out even though I never proved my point with video evidence in the FB mega) but I respectfully disagree. Either the same or more [over] stability when flattening a relatively flat disc to begin with.


Seems like you want to bag the Firebird. I say make that a reality.

 

[Moose33]

Have not tried flattening, but I may buy an c out and try it.

 

[Moose33]

They need to release a stiff proton or maybe even an eclipse Motion for you Moose...

I would honestly love to try that, but motions are so long that they overlap with my distance drivers.

 

[Zanguini]

The Nate Sexton was actually the least stable of the 3.

I dont think that nate would like you calling him the least stable.

 

[JeCroisQue]

I like flat firebirds, but true FAF firebirds are hard to come by and to be honest, they are not very useful. You may have upper echelon power, but for the 400 ft thrower I can't get my FAF firebirds over 300 without cranking them over. There is a run of new luster firebirds that are the flattest and most OS firebirds I have ever thrown. If you really want them, that's what I would look for.