American Disc Golf Association

[DavidSauls]

Here is a screen shot from a Pro/Am last month.

Total Purse $10,176

Men's Open Winner made $1,171

# players in last place made $86.

Our Amateur Champion can win a brand new 4wheeler, Jetski, etc with a MSRP of $10,000 by paying only $100 in Entry Fees + gas to play in a Qualifier and the Championship.

Save your breath. Or your typing fingers. Everyone in this thread, everyone who's ever been involved in disc golf, knows that the payouts are spread among the top 45-50%, and no winner-take-all.

 

[discgolftom]

Here is another screen shot from a Pro Tournament in Texas last month.

Total Purse $25,196

Men's Open Winner made $2,500

3 players in last place made $180.

Here is a screen shot from a Pro/Am last month.

Total Purse $10,176

Men's Open Winner made $1,171

# players in last place made $86.

Our Amateur Champion can win a brand new 4wheeler, Jetski, etc with a MSRP of $10,000 by paying only $100 in Entry Fees + gas to play in a Qualifier and the Championship.

 

[discgolftom]

The Charlotte Amateur Championships in 2019 had 349 players and was trophy only. Players come because it is run well on awesome courses and had a sweet players pack.

What do you consider a " sweet players pack " ?

Cutting off the divisions at 900 will lose you a lot of 900-930ish rated players that will have no chance in advanced.

Advanced = anyone over 900. Is that not good?

A 4-wheeler or Jet Ski doesn't sound like that cool of a prize for the average disc golfer, who would need land, access to water or at least a vehicle with a trailer to haul it somewhere they could use it. The winner of your event will probably be a teenager or 20-something without any of those things.

This is being held in GA / SC - these peeps love everything you mentioned above.

I imagine they will be able to pick any product that the Title Sponsor sells up to the $10,000 MSRP . . .

Winner could always "sell" the prize if they wish. That is none of our business.

 

[discgolftom]

* Amateur only is permitted without making a special request.

* Divisions will be permitted if, instead of calling it Intermediate, you call the <900 Recreational. (Yeah, I know, it's a dumb name, but that's another thread. Shorten it to "Rec" so it doesn't sound so bad).

* Assigning unrated players to the top division is permitted.

*** The waivers you need are (1) less than 100% payout in qualifiers, (2) winner-take-all payout in finals, and (3) Finals being open only to qualifiers, instead of open to anyone.

#3 is probably the easiest.

Thanks David. I hope it does work that we can be sanctioned.

 

[discgolftom]

. . . knows that the payouts are spread among the top 45-50%, and no winner-take-all.

I believe this is what will make us different. Hopefully.

 

[DavidSauls]

What do you consider a " sweet players pack " ?

Can't speak for Norton, but normally in a trophy-only event, the retail value of the players pack is approximately the same as the entry fee.

Yeah, I know, you can't give away a jet ski like that. But that's what would be seen as a "sweet players pack".

 

[discgolftom]

Ain't happenin'!

Awesome Game J-Dub.

Bearcats are a great team and have been for years.

Hard to play 4 quarters with a SEC Team, unless you are a SEC Team.

Hope you enjoy the rest of the Games.

Go Clemson tonight!

 

[DavidSauls]

Advanced = anyone over 900. Is that not good?

The problem is that if the division includes players from 900-970 or so, the ones at the lower end have virtually no chance of winning, so are less likely to come.

Not a big problem if you fill with the 940-970s. You don't have to cater to everyone.

P.S. A normal tournament with a broad payout, would give those 900-920s hope to at least finish in the top half, and win something, if they shoot way over their norm.

 

[norlon]

David's right, for $50 I would hope for 2 discs and a shirt or something like that. I believe the CAC had 5 discs and a bunch of other stuff. Some bigger Am tournaments have given multiple discs and backpack bags.

And Tom, I am your audience. I am an Am in North Carolina that has played tournaments all over South Carolina-including ad David's course. I'm middle of the pack advanced and that's one of the reasons I wouldn't play a winner take all tournament.

 

[DavidSauls]

This is being held in GA / SC - these peeps love everything you mentioned above.

I imagine they will be able to pick any product that the Title Sponsor sells up to the $10,000 MSRP . . .

Winner could always "sell" the prize if they wish. That is none of our business.

I'm in SC, already have one, and the other would be quite a nuisance until I got it sold. Most disc golfers I know, would have no use for either.

 

[discgolftom]

Can't speak for Norton, but normally in a trophy-only event, the retail value of the players pack is approximately the same as the entry fee.

Yeah, I know, you can't give away a jet ski like that. But that's what would be seen as a "sweet players pack".

All prizes in our Player Packs will be donated by Sponsors. Probably won't be the greatest of all time, but we are hoping the format experience and the chance to advance to an actual "Championship" with a huge 1st place prize will fill up the events + get them to come back for the next one . . .

 

[DavidSauls]

David's right, for $50 I would hope for 2 discs and a shirt or something like that. I believe the CAC had 5 discs and a bunch of other stuff. Some bigger Am tournaments have given multiple discs and backpack bags.

And Tom, I am your audience. I am an Am in North Carolina that has played tournaments all over South Carolina-including ad David's course. I'm middle of the pack advanced and that's one of the reasons I wouldn't play a winner take all tournament.

You are his audience....and you're not. His project doesn't need to be attractive to most disc golfers. It only has to attract a small percentage of them.

 

[davetherocketguy]

With a giant prize like that how do you deal with the taxes? Payouts in cash are one thing but with a big ol' jetski...I'll bet there are players on tour who would not be able to accept a prize like that just because they won't be able to afford the taxes. On game shows Google says its 37% so if that's the same here on a $10000 item that's $3700 some dg'er is going to have to shell out...Not sure if that's something they gotta pay right away or what.

 

[DavidSauls]

With a giant prize like that how do you deal with the taxes? Payouts in cash are one thing but with a big ol' jetski...I'll bet there are players on tour who would not be able to accept a prize like that just because they won't be able to afford the taxes. On game shows Google says its 37% so if that's the same here on a $10000 item that's $3700 some dg'er is going to have to shell out...Not sure if that's something they gotta pay right away or what.

It shouldn't be that high, unless the winner is already in a high tax bracket (and this is disc golfers we're talking about). I don't remember what the threshhold for withholding is, but I'd guess it wouldn't be something that would have to be paid until the next year's tax filings.

But, yeah, it goes with transport, storage, property taxes, and insurance, as things to deal with. A player would still be better off winning than not, though.

 

[discgolftom]

I'm in SC, already have one, and the other would be quite a nuisance until I got it sold. Most disc golfers I know, would have no use for either.

If you didn't need the specific Prize, I imagine it could be sold [ at discount ] without even picking it up from the Sponsor.

Winner could also trade it for a Cruise, Vacation, etc . . .

 

[discgolftom]

David's right, for $50 I would hope for 2 discs and a shirt or something like that. I believe the CAC had 5 discs and a bunch of other stuff. Some bigger Am tournaments have given multiple discs and backpack bags.

And Tom, I am your audience. I am an Am in North Carolina that has played tournaments all over South Carolina-including ad David's course. I'm middle of the pack advanced and that's one of the reasons I wouldn't play a winner take all tournament.

Guess that is a decision you'd have to make Norlon. We'd love to have you though - I imagine it is going to be fun.

 

[discgolftom]

With a giant prize like that how do you deal with the taxes? Payouts in cash are one thing but with a big ol' jetski...I'll bet there are players on tour who would not be able to accept a prize like that just because they won't be able to afford the taxes. On game shows Google says its 37% so if that's the same here on a $10000 item that's $3700 some dg'er is going to have to shell out...Not sure if that's something they gotta pay right away or what.

I'm not an Accountant.

We will issue the winner a 1099-MISC for the Fair Market Value of the prize. How they handle that is their business. I always suggested to past winners to be sure you itemize your return and take advantage of every deduction available to them - mileage, meals, hotels, entry fees, supplies - discs, bags, shoes, clothes, etc.

Edited to add - the winnings are from a game of skill -vs- a game of chance. I believe there is a difference in reporting / paying.

 

[davetherocketguy]

It shouldn't be that high, unless the winner is already in a high tax bracket (and this is disc golfers we're talking about). I don't remember what the threshhold for withholding is, but I'd guess it wouldn't be something that would have to be paid until the next year's tax filings.

But, yeah, it goes with transport, storage, property taxes, and insurance, as things to deal with. A player would still be better off winning than not, though.

Yeah I'm pretty sure McBeths McClaren doesn't have a tow hitch installed for such things.

 

[discgolftom]

The problem is that if the division includes players from 900-970 or so, the ones at the lower end have virtually no chance of winning, so are less likely to come.

Not a big problem if you fill with the 940-970s. You don't have to cater to everyone.

P.S. A normal tournament with a broad payout, would give those 900-920s hope to at least finish in the top half, and win something, if they shoot way over their norm.

I'm going to have to think on this some more.

We could run 3 divisions - 24 Players in each. and advance the Top 5 with 1 at large per division. But - then at the Championship - we would have to handicap it. Probably based on Rating. I actually like a handicapped tournament. Levels out the playing field somewhat.

Thanks for your input David. Appreciate you.

 

[discgolftom]

It shouldn't be that high, unless the winner is already in a high tax bracket (and this is disc golfers we're talking about). I don't remember what the threshhold for withholding is, but I'd guess it wouldn't be something that would have to be paid until the next year's tax filings.

But, yeah, it goes with transport, storage, property taxes, and insurance, as things to deal with. A player would still be better off winning than not, though.

Correct - we will issue a 1099-MISC for the Fair Market Value of the winnings. They use it for the tax return for whatever year they "receive" the prize, not when they win it.

In all reality - the winner could choose from a variety of Prizes if they wish - up to whatever is pre-determined to be the MSRP of the Prize Package.

Don't want a $10,000 4wheeler - get a $5000 Dirt Bike and a 7 Day Cruise on Royal Caribbean for 4 -or- a 7 All-Inclusive Vacation to a Sandals resort for 2.

Doesn't matter to us. We are buying the Prize from a Sponsor no matter what.