Are glide and stability actually independent variables?

[seedlings]

My Presnell Drone has a ton of glide. So easy to overshoot the target. Only one i've ever thrown so no sample size. Honestly, I don't think it's as stable as advertised. The glide might play a role.

 

[Ryan P.]

Why don't disc makers have a device that throws discs the same way every time?
The device would need to have adjustments to throw discs at different speeds, spin rates, angles, etc.
It doesn't seem like it would be that difficult for machinists and engineers to build.

Ball golf companies have a machine to accurately test balls and clubs. When Titleist claims "the Titleist Z7 flies 17 feet farther" I'm sure they have data to back it up.

I think it's a good bit more money to build and/or buy a robot that mimics a human throwing a disc. I've seen quite a few robots throwing a disc, but none that mimic how a human does it. I would imagine those could have different results. Mainly I'm thinking that a robot would need to account for the OAT that almost always happens when a human hand releases a disc. That doesn't happen with the robots I've seen.

Also, what incentive do manufacturers have to build one? "Hey, our flight numbers are more accurate, buy our discs!" I don't think that matters to most people, especially after the disc has been released for a month or two or after someone has thrown the mold.

 

[jakebake91]

I think it's a good bit more money to build and/or buy a robot that mimics a human throwing a disc. I've seen quite a few robots throwing a disc, but none that mimic how a human does it. I would imagine those could have different results. Mainly I'm thinking that a robot would need to account for the OAT that almost always happens when a human hand releases a disc. That doesn't happen with the robots I've seen.

Also, what incentive do manufacturers have to build one? "Hey, our flight numbers are more accurate, buy our discs!" I don't think that matters to most people, especially after the disc has been released for a month or two or after someone has thrown the mold.

I always envisioned said disc throwing contraption less like a conventional throw and more like a turbo putt on steroids. Launch it down a rail and impart spin by coming round the side of it. Like a turbo putt. Mimics a hard flat throw as decent as possible I think.

 

[Doofenshmirtz]

I've seen quite a few robots throwing a disc, but none that mimic how a human does it. I would imagine those could have different results. Mainly I'm thinking that a robot would need to account for the OAT that almost always happens when a human hand releases a disc. That doesn't happen with the robots I've seen.

It wouldn't really have to mimic a human arm to be useful. Even a human arm only results in a certain number of variables like launch pitch angle (nose up/down), launch roll angle (hyzer/anhyzer), spin direction, spin speed, OAT (amount of wobble) and launch speed. I may be missing something, but there's only so much you can do with a disc. Omitting wobble and as long as you can get consistent releases, you can get good information on a disc relative to other discs.

The problem is that, in order to accurately inform a purchase about the properties of the disc that they want to purchase, you would have to test every individual disc due to differences in weight, PLH and other results of inconsistency with the manufacturing process. If you can't test each individual disc, what's the point of testing any of them.

 

[seedlings]

LHBH or RHFH throws

...supposed to be animated gif...

 

[elmexdela]

so i mean say we were to measure glide

is glide technically hangtime

would the disc have to be in the same speed category and travel the same distance checkpoint

what about discs with moar lateral movement or even fade

i think we all can agree comet has much moar glide than a spider but how do we prove that

or is it all "relative" and the companies gauge is their own other molds such as comet vs buzz vs wasp vs meteor/ gator vs rock vs mako vs wolf

 

[ThrowaEnvy]

Agreed Comet is the benchmark!

 

[flatflip]

LHBH or RHFH throws

...supposed to be animated gif...

Yeah I think we all need sw22 to give us a gif tutorial.

 

[flatflip]

The fritzron: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VvoXtFS03Lw

 

[DG_player]

so i mean say we were to measure glide

is glide technically hangtime

would the disc have to be in the same speed category and travel the same distance checkpoint

what about discs with moar lateral movement or even fade

i think we all can agree comet has much moar glide than a spider but how do we prove that

or is it all "relative" and the companies gauge is their own other molds such as comet vs buzz vs wasp vs meteor/ gator vs rock vs mako vs wolf

You could use an actual established aerodynamic measurement like glide ratio.

 

[elmexdela]

You could use an actual established aerodynamic measurement like glide ratio.

say moar or provide examples

 

[glassila]

Mainly I'm thinking that a robot would need to account for the OAT that almost always happens when a human hand releases a disc.

I totally disagree with "a robot would need to account for the OAT".

I think companies would want to test how a disc flies when thrown correctly = no OAT.

 

[DG_player]

say moar or provide examples

It's simply a measure of how far something flies horizontally for elevation lost. For example something with a glide ratio of 10 would fly 100 feet forward for every 10 feet of altitude lost.

Of course using an objective measure would prevent the disc manufacturers from arbitrarily labelling their new glidey disc as having 1 more glide than their last hyped glidey disc.

 

[elmexdela]

It's simply a measure of how far something flies horizontally for elevation lost. For example something with a glide ratio of 10 would fly 100 feet forward for every 10 feet of altitude lost.

Of course using an objective measure would prevent the disc manufacturers from arbitrarily labelling their new glidey disc as having 1 more glide than their last hyped glidey disc.

a dx aviar is going to "glide" better than say a nuke os yet im going to throw the nuke farther

what about a disc like mvp switch which has great glide in the hss part but dumps off like a wounded duck at the last 75% of flight

with turn and fade and really any lateral movement how can one really measure glide across the board

 

[Al Dente]

I don't believe glide and stability to be independent variables. I would define glide as being a product of lift and high and low speed instability.

I like flight numbers while recognizing their innaccuracy. They at least express the designers intent, and give you some reference when comparing molds from one manufacturer.

 

[DG_player]

a dx aviar is going to "glide" better than say a nuke os yet im going to throw the nuke farther

what about a disc like mvp switch which has great glide in the hss part but dumps off like a wounded duck at the last 75% of flight

My take is that generally when people are talking about glide they're talking about the latter part of the flight, once it's crested the apex and has lost it's release speed and is relying on gravity.

Comparing a nuke to an aviar is like comparing an F16 to a cessna. Clearly the F16 is faster, but if you lose your engines and have to glide you'd much rather be in the cessna.

with turn and fade and really any lateral movement how can one really measure glide across the board

You could measure it at the parameters required for the disc to maintain stable flight. Or you could measure it at the optimum and let the buyer parse out the details.

 

[Ryan P.]

I totally disagree with "a robot would need to account for the OAT".

I think companies would want to test how a disc flies when thrown correctly = no OAT.

Thanks for your thoughts. Differing opinions leads to clarifying thoughts, which leads to a clearer way forward. I think we disagree that "thrown correctly = no OAT."

I was thinking that, in order to accurately represent a human flight, it should be thrown like a human, which is going to incur OAT due to humans having hands. I've never seen even the best players throw a disc with absolutely no OAT. If I understand what you're saying (that an absolutely ideal throw wouldn't have OAT), then it would be a nice way to measure a disc's flight. However, if they result in different numbers, then we'd have the same problem we do now with flight numbers that don't accurately represent how a disc flies when we throw it. Therefore a more accurate numbering system would use numbers based on throws with the same amount of OAT that the disc has when thrown by a human.

Where am I wrong now?

 

[elmexdela]

My take is that generally when people are talking about glide they're talking about the latter part of the flight, once it's crested the apex and has lost it's release speed and is relying on gravity.

Comparing a nuke to an aviar is like comparing an F16 to a cessna. Clearly the F16 is faster, but if you lose your engines and have to glide you'd much rather be in the cessna.



You could measure it at the parameters required for the disc to maintain stable flight. Or you could measure it at the optimum and let the buyer parse out the details.

well hold on while i pitch this idea to innova and see if they can achieve the first official measured glide ratings

this is incredible

 

[elmexdela]

Thanks for your thoughts. Differing opinions leads to clarifying thoughts, which leads to a clearer way forward. I think we disagree that "thrown correctly = no OAT."

I was thinking that, in order to accurately represent a human flight, it should be thrown like a human, which is going to incur OAT due to humans having hands. I've never seen even the best players throw a disc with absolutely no OAT. If I understand what you're saying (that an absolutely ideal throw wouldn't have OAT), then it would be a nice way to measure a disc's flight. However, if they result in different numbers, then we'd have the same problem we do now with flight numbers that don't accurately represent how a disc flies when we throw it. Therefore a more accurate numbering system would use numbers based on throws with the same amount of OAT that the disc has when thrown by a human.

Where am I wrong now?

because every disc is subjectively described by the user and its also relative

i might throw a champ valk 300 on a clean release laser beam and my buddy throws the same champ valk on a fat oats all day s line for 300 as well

i might describe it as "kinda flippy" since it flipped to flat and rate it as 9 4 -2 2 where my buddy who is an oats champion throws the fat s line which held for a while so buddy calls it "kinda flippy" a 9 4 -2 2

or maybe i describe it as glideless turd and my buddy thinks it floated forever

maybe im used to throwing dx valks and i know dx glide better or maybe my buddy usually throws firebirds so this seemed really glidey

neither of us are wrong technically

we have nothing to calculate these numbers upon except comparing it to other discs we already know and throw

speed is probably the closest thing we can calculate but height depth weight all impact that

 

[elmexdela]

people cant even agree on here of what glide is or when it exactly occurs

yet were going to measure something we cant define

lulz