I couldnt of said it any better thx bro. Also keep in mind these holes have lots of airspace and are not wooded. These are the holes distances when all pins are in the long positions. 10 holes have shorter pin placements.
200ft-300ft = 5 holes
300ft-400ft = 6 holes
400ft-450ft = 4 holes
500ft-550ft = 2 holes
800ft+ = 1 hole
I totally recognize the uniqueness of the course. I thought it was great, however, it is not perfect. As a designer and builder of courses, I understand the feeling when people comment on your course. If no changes were made, I loved this course, and would recommend it to anyone. Take the comments with an open mind.
The above distances dont represent, from what I saw, the actual concete tee pads for holes 2 and 3. The were under 200 feet from the pin, I think, or close to 200'. I noticed flags there that pushed the holes longer.
There are 10 holes in the middle 300-400, 400-450. Like I said, a 340' hole where the basket is 40 feet up on a ridge plays like a 425' hole. There were 3-5 of these from what I remember. So effective distance of the holes is actually more like 2-3 in the 300-400 range and 8-9 400' par 3s.
Also, yes you can say that on a 330' hole, you give a straight line gap... however the trouble is 100' from the tee. If you mess up you are 230' away from the pin. The best shot will ALWAYS be the 380-400' hyzer up and around the trouble. If you come up short, you are still only 100' from the basket, not 230'. If on those holes, you play for the straight shot, you are not the skill level (choice making) that hole length is designed for. It is Arizona, but there are plenty of trees on that course that can be utilized to interfere with shots 50' from the pin. In those cases an accurate throw is more important than a LONG throw. That creates challenge for more players. I know a number of 1000-1010 rated players that cannot throw 400', they simply cannot score well (I dont care what par is) compared to the field on 50% of the holes at Marana.
Attention was given here to frame holes with the trees but not drive lines. So baskets were typically in front of a horseshoe of trees in a wide open area. The putting greens were excellent, however, if the basket was behind or beside these trees, you would force the player to make a decision. You can still limb up trees so you can see baskets from the tee. Just a design style to "think" about when you create your new 8-9 holes. It is clear the design style of the course. It is pretty consistent throughout.
Im a 990 rated "am" (putting keeps me below 1000) so I am right in the target area you mention for the course. While I can throw up to 450' those throws are wildly inconsistent...so I consider myself a 400' or less thrower.
Championship level doesnt mean long. There were only 2-3 holes like this on 14 courses 2012 Pro/Am Worlds. (Bradford short #2, Kilborne16?) 400-450' par 3's. None at Winthrop. Long and championship level dont go hand in hand always.
ANyways great job on the course. Litter was minimal except the edges of the lake from the run off and everything looked great.
