Hole 8 actually got a good test at Texas Teams, and I was very pleased with the results. The gap to the bailout area got pretty grown in since last November, and the parks guys just didn't have time to address it. I do apologize to everyone -- that is not a good, fair hole in its current state.
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Hole 8 actually got a good test at Texas Teams, and I was very pleased with the results. The gap to the bailout area got pretty grown in since last November, and the parks guys just didn't have time to address it. I do apologize to everyone -- that is not a good, fair hole in its current state.
We actually had a discussion about the here recently. I don't recall if it was in this thread or maybe the Selah thread.
You should absolutely play to the short tee box and throw across from there. If it's too windy to make it from there, you can play around the water. And you're right about the spotter -- very tough to know without one. That's a big reason why at Am World Doubles we'd played it as a re-tee if you didn't finish in bounds.
jsc430
Double Eagle Member
Hi John! I hope your new endeavor in NY is still going well.
I'm wondering what you can tell us about the two courses being designed near Selah Ranch?
1. Will they be opening to Texas Teams? Will there be time to play it before hand?
2. How will these courses compare to Selah? In difficulty? Multiple boxes? Natural Beauty? Great water hazards?
3. Will there be golf carts
? (I'm guessing they won't be available for tournament play like Am Doubles?)
4. There's been been word of camp sites, are there any other accommodations at the new ranch?
Thanks for your time!
I'm wondering what you can tell us about the two courses being designed near Selah Ranch?
1. Will they be opening to Texas Teams? Will there be time to play it before hand?
2. How will these courses compare to Selah? In difficulty? Multiple boxes? Natural Beauty? Great water hazards?
3. Will there be golf carts
? (I'm guessing they won't be available for tournament play like Am Doubles?)4. There's been been word of camp sites, are there any other accommodations at the new ranch?
Thanks for your time!
grodney
* Ace Member *
Looks like the new courses are at/near the Trey-Deuce Domino Saloon, judging by the pic at this link, and comparing to the pics on the Texas Teams facebook, and also Texas Teams mentioned that there is a real saloon at the site of the new courses. https://www.signmeup.com/site/reg/register.aspx?fid=C32VBJ7
Plus, Diane Newsom has commented on the pics on the Texas Teams page as if she's the proprietor, and she is the contact listed on the page above.
The address given in the link is: 4450 CR SW 3010, which is south and a little west of Mt Vernon. I didn't see any driving directions to the saloon itself, but they're probably out there with a little digging. Of course I also didn't dig into property ownership records in order to guess where the courses might be, but that could be done as well.
Plus, Diane Newsom has commented on the pics on the Texas Teams page as if she's the proprietor, and she is the contact listed on the page above.
The address given in the link is: 4450 CR SW 3010, which is south and a little west of Mt Vernon. I didn't see any driving directions to the saloon itself, but they're probably out there with a little digging. Of course I also didn't dig into property ownership records in order to guess where the courses might be, but that could be done as well.
jsc430
Double Eagle Member
^Dang, nice internet detective work
Agreed. Rodney is one of the best researchers out there, and he has scored again. Diane Newsom is indeed one of the owners. Trey Newsom, domino champ, is also a proprietor. When it comes to the courses, they are on adjoining properties, with one owned by Trey and one owned by Diane and her husband Waymon. Now to answer Jeff's questions.
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i am curious your thoughts on raised baskets. on another thread in this forum there is a discussion regarding them. do you think they are good/bad for the sport? is there a certain design style you think is more appropriate than another?
grodney
* Ace Member *
Ha ha, y'all give me too much credit. I was looking at the facebook photos that Texas Teams posted and I saw that somebody (Diane Newsom) commented on the red turtle with something like: "When y'all come out, try to get a picture of him.".
So from there, it took one google of [Diane Newsom Mt Vernon]. That was it.
Anyway, super-excited about the new courses.
Thanks, Jeff. The Frost Valley YMCA should have the first 7 1/2 holes playable any day now (Hole #9 will have only the red tee playable), and construction will continue some time after Summer Camp is over. It's going to be an amazing course.
We will be using both courses -- and both Selah courses -- for Texas Teams. As for when they'll be playable, all I can say is we'll do our best. I wouldn't plan on playing either in October, but we'll see.
Difficulty and multiple tee boxes will be comparable. But no place I know of has the great water hazards of Selah. Selah and Trey Deuce are apples and oranges, I would just say to be prepared for four great courses.
3. Will there be golf carts
There will probably be carts down the line, but you're right -- not for tournaments.
Not at this point.
With these two new courses, Franklin County will become even more of a major disc golf destination.
One other thing I realized is that, with Frost Valley, Trey Deuce, and the three courses in Live Oak, I currently have 6 courses in progress. That's a personal record. Looking forward to getting them all done, so people can start enjoying them. (And we'll be announcing a new one very soon.)
I understand that sometime you really want variety, especially on a flat course. And I like the fact that a higher basket often results in a more nose-up putt and brings the wind into play more.
I saw a little of that other thread, but I haven't been there recently. I have a real aversion to anything that looks or feels unnatural, and elevated baskets are in that category for me. I know lots of people feel differently -- I just prefer to keep things as natural as possible.
So I like a basket on top of a mound better than just a raised basket. But if you can't really land on the mound, you may have solved the aesthetic issue, but you may still have playability issues. In Live Oak, Texas we recently built up a green, but we made it 50' in diameter. So you have an elevated basket if you miss the green, but if you hit the green you have a flat putt. To me that's a more elegant solution. Also, the parks department did a great job building it, so I think it's a great aesthetic addition on top of adding to the playing variety. I like that green so much that we've been using it as the cover photo for our Facebook page: https://www.facebook.com/HouckDesign?ref=hl I was there yesterday, in fact, and I'm happy to report that the grass has been growing, and the green is now almost 100%... green.
Thanks for the question.
[devil's advocate]
What's natural looking and feeling about baskets, level teepads, whether concrete or gravel, tee signs, and clear fairways and greens cut through woods?[/devil's advocate]
Dear Mr. Advocate,
I suppose we could go there, if we wanted natural-looking nature instead of natural-looking courses.
It comes down to what's idealistic vs. what's realistic. We kind of need baskets and tee pads and fairways. And, to be clear, I'm not saying people shouldn't use elevated baskets or artificial OB or whatever else. I just have a preference for a "natural" look when I have that option.
Thanks.
grodney
* Ace Member *
John, how do you feel about baskets at different heights throughout a course? Not extremely elevated baskets like the other thread, but baskets that vary from "standard" by maybe a foot (or 2) lower to a foot higher?
Would that be a good thing for the game? Or is the game better served by striving for uniformity of basket height?
Would that be a good thing for the game? Or is the game better served by striving for uniformity of basket height?
For starters, I think the game is better served with occasional baskets on slopes. That way, you sometimes putt up and you sometimes putt down (and you sometimes carry downhill if you miss). Your approach shot determines what kind of putt you'll have, not the height of the basket.
Now, that doesn't mean that you just find a slope and stick a basket on it. You'd want try to ensure that the best approaches get the most desirable look at the pin, etc.
Last week I was working on a new course (the first HouckDesign course in Washington state -- can't say where just yet). It's on an old ball golf course, and it offers several pin locations that I like even better than just a slope.
The existing bunkers make for pin positions where maybe part of the green is a nice flat area, part of the green is a gradual slope, and part of the green is bunker (everybody's putting up, or maybe up and over the lip of the bunker). When this course is done, there will be some holes with bunker in front of the pin, some with bunker behind, and some with bunker on either side. I think they will be the most interesting greens I've ever done and will create situations where you'll really want to hit a particular part of the green.
Right now, that's the best solution I've seen. Of course, I'll keep looking for something better.
Sadjo
* Ace Member *
There is an old ball golf course near me...I've approach the county that owns the property about Disc Golf (they're considering making it a park and continue to mow every-other week) and I have thought that the existing bunkers would make for some great greens for Disc Golf.
why would you take the sand out? that's part of the reason bunkers don't just collect water like crazy. i've always thought intentionally building bunkers on courses was something i'd like to see more of. to me it's much more interesting than to have a hole on a green than a mound with a basket on it.
While baskets are, by far, the target of choice, object targets were in use well before the invention of the pole hole and continue to be approved for sanctioned play; and level teepads, while preferable for many reasons, are by no means necessary.
"Natural" or "conventional"?
My wonderful wife has posted photos of the new course, which will be in Monroe, Washington. Former ball golf course that eventually became a 9-hole "executive" course. Really pretty property with mounds and bunkers and huge fir trees. A couple small ponds on the backside, and great mountain views pretty much everywhere.
The owner is great -- it'll be a private course with a nice clubhouse -- and in the two weeks we were there recently, we got to meet most of the neighbors, who were all great. Many of the neighbors bought homes there in order to be on the course, but it closed 6-7 years ago, shortly after most of them moved in. At least now they'll be living on a golf course again.
The property will need a good deal of work before it opens; in particular, it's going to need a lot of new trees. We will, of course, let everyone know when it's ready to go.
The pictures are up at the HouckDesign Facebook page:
https://www.facebook.com/HouckDesign?ref=hl
The owner is great -- it'll be a private course with a nice clubhouse -- and in the two weeks we were there recently, we got to meet most of the neighbors, who were all great. Many of the neighbors bought homes there in order to be on the course, but it closed 6-7 years ago, shortly after most of them moved in. At least now they'll be living on a golf course again.
The property will need a good deal of work before it opens; in particular, it's going to need a lot of new trees. We will, of course, let everyone know when it's ready to go.
The pictures are up at the HouckDesign Facebook page:
https://www.facebook.com/HouckDesign?ref=hl
LetsPlayGolf
Par Member
Steve West said a couple of years ago... "Two signs of a fun design: an evil grin on your face, and pros whining." The pros whining thing is really getting to me.
Disc Side of Heaven Rec Course #18. 408' from White Tee, 435' from Blue Tee' Up hill about 30' in elevation, PDGA guidelines say it's a Par 4. (Right now it is playing at 4.07 strokes by Men's Pro and Men's Advanced players)
The only way to reach the green on your approach shot is from right to left. The basket sits about three feet from a massive oak and on the other side of the oak the land drops off about 10' down. Right now there is a very small tree (about 3 inches in diameter) on the opposite side of the massive oak about two feet from the basket.
The IDEA is to NOT attack the basket on your approach shot, but to attack the right side of the 'green'. If you land your approach anywhere on the right side of the basket (simple hyzer approach) you have a completely clear shot to putt from. If you land there 10-15-even 25 feet to the right you have an open putt for your birdie 3. If you go short, you are down the gully. If you go long you have the small 3" tree in line with your putt. If you go left you have the gully and the massive oak in the way.
Placement golf. Right?
Everyone wants to cut down the small tree so they can attack the basket for a "drop in 3". It is very surprising to me to find out that some of these really good local pros have "never considered attacking the right side of the green". They only attack the basket and then get ticked off when they go deep.
John, I would be very interested to you thoughts on this subject.
Thank you-
Brad
Disc Side of Heaven Rec Course #18. 408' from White Tee, 435' from Blue Tee' Up hill about 30' in elevation, PDGA guidelines say it's a Par 4. (Right now it is playing at 4.07 strokes by Men's Pro and Men's Advanced players)
The only way to reach the green on your approach shot is from right to left. The basket sits about three feet from a massive oak and on the other side of the oak the land drops off about 10' down. Right now there is a very small tree (about 3 inches in diameter) on the opposite side of the massive oak about two feet from the basket.
The IDEA is to NOT attack the basket on your approach shot, but to attack the right side of the 'green'. If you land your approach anywhere on the right side of the basket (simple hyzer approach) you have a completely clear shot to putt from. If you land there 10-15-even 25 feet to the right you have an open putt for your birdie 3. If you go short, you are down the gully. If you go long you have the small 3" tree in line with your putt. If you go left you have the gully and the massive oak in the way.
Placement golf. Right?
Everyone wants to cut down the small tree so they can attack the basket for a "drop in 3". It is very surprising to me to find out that some of these really good local pros have "never considered attacking the right side of the green". They only attack the basket and then get ticked off when they go deep.
John, I would be very interested to you thoughts on this subject.
Thank you-
Brad
