BillyJackO's Form Adventure*

[slowplastic]

That makes sense. I can feel a lot of leverage through my rear instep and leg, but in a way that it powers my front hip and then the front hip pulls the body. Whereas a shift in front throw feels like the rear foot is powering the arm directly by pushing it forward, rather than there be a pulling feeling.

It also makes sense how you are saying the over the top is like shoulders leading the hips, but there essentially not being hip rotation.

I'm on board with all that, just need more repetitions and adjusting. I definitely feel the rear instep leverage in throws, how you described for my throw and just reiterated here in a similar way.

Do you feel any tension/resistance build on the outside of your plant hip as you're driving the rear side downward into the plant, or does everything clear or rotate easily?

 

[sidewinder22]

Do you feel any tension/resistance build on the outside of your plant hip as you're driving the rear side downward into the plant, or does everything clear or rotate easily?

Agree with your description on the other stuff.

On your question I would clarify that I'm not driving the rear side downward. The rear foot driving into the ground is driving everything else forward like a speed skater starting on ice or roller blades, or sub pitcher and there will be a dropping/lowering/angulation happening. Some people call it a skateboard push which never made sense to me because I could never skateboard or get two feet on it - which I now understand why I couldn't, balance/weight/stance was all wrong leg, just like my backhand in the beginning. I think it should be like one leg drill on the skateboard, but no way I'm trying to learn skateboard err break more bones.

There is some initial tension/resistance on the outside plant leg to redirect your linear momentum and the tension is mirrored like on the rear outside leg like in door frame drill, but it dissipates/releases as I rise up on the front leg which swivels the pelvis like squatting on one leg. Mike Maves description of everything is spot on to me.

 

[slowplastic]

The part at 4:15 is pretty much exactly what I was looking for in this instance. About once you've resisted and the hip starts to clear a bit, that you can just go with it.

I can definitely feel a ton of leverage on the back foot, more than ever. I wouldn't say it's like a skateboard push though, that's a weird feeling unlike anything else.

On a skateboard you're on one leg drill on the leading foot on the front of the board, 100% committed to that balance in all directions. But once your rear foot is on the ground matching the ground's speed to kick, it feels completely gripped to the ground like you're running...but your balance is always over the foot on the board, you just squat down so the other foot can touch down. You don't dare shift your balance toward the pushing foot. I can feel the grip/traction on the pushing leg from ground and the extended rear leg after kicking while being balanced on the front leg as a similarity to the throw, but when you are going 100% all out and you are reaching in front of you with your kicking leg before pushing, while being balanced on the board behind that outstretched leg...that's a weird feeling to commit to.

 

[sidewinder22]

I wouldn't say it's like a skateboard push though, that's a weird feeling unlike anything else.

On a skateboard you're on one leg drill on the leading foot on the front of the board, 100% committed to that balance in all directions. But once your rear foot is on the ground matching the ground's speed to kick, it feels completely gripped to the ground like you're running...but your balance is always over the foot on the board, you just squat down so the other foot can touch down. You don't dare shift your balance toward the pushing foot. I can feel the grip/traction on the pushing leg from ground and the extended rear leg after kicking while being balanced on the front leg as a similarity to the throw, but when you are going 100% all out and you are reaching in front of you with your kicking leg before pushing, while being balanced on the board behind that outstretched leg...that's a weird feeling to commit to.

IDK that sounds like a good description of one leg drill to me.

 

[slowplastic]

Interesting, I'll try to think about that a bit when going through balance drills or throwing standstill. It's easier to be forced to learn to balance when the consequence is wrecking, rather than not throwing as far as you want.

 

[sidewinder22]

Interesting, I'll try to think about that a bit when going through balance drills or throwing standstill. It's easier to be forced to learn to balance when the consequence is wrecking, rather than not throwing as far as you want.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZJ4pxndBpJ4#t=2m22s

 

[billyjacko]

Feeling good with my throws lately. Trying to concentrate on reaching/rotating back further and keeping my elbow and shoulder up through the swing.

 

[sidewinder22]

Your stride and stance ain't working. You are trying to stagger your stance too much right to left across the teepad and your CoG is stuck behind(right) your front heel causing you to rise up during the swing instead of clearing your front hip back to the wall(right) and "staying down while rotating". Look at your front hip, it has no depth as you are jamming into it/behind it, and your front knee is collapsing toward your ankle. Your left hip/shoulder are to the right of your right hip.

Might want to revisit the hips vids:
https://www.dgcoursereview.com/forums/showthread.php?t=133543

 

[billyjacko]

IDK man, that hip video might be the best one I've seen.

 

[sidewinder22]

 

[billyjacko]

I might be starting to reach back like a normal human bean.

 

[sidewinder22]

Yep, backswing looks better. I think you need to plant more with your front knee/foot hanging straighter/stiffer for more sudden weightshift - stick your front leg firmly into the ground like Barry Sanders going into a juke to change direction, rather than bending/flexing front knee as you plant. Your weightshift is happening too slow and you have a lot of front knee action going from quite bent to hyperextended and backing away from target - your rear foot also spins out, looks like you are trying to rotate too hard/much/fast and cheating your shift.

 

[billyjacko]

I'm really feeling the connection of the hips and shoulders. It's helping me rotate to release with my foot still braced. I'm having a bit of an issue with accidental high throws, but distance feels super easy right now. I'm pulling my Buzzz out on 330-350' holes which is a first. Disc is definitely coming out with heat and spin.

 

[sidewinder22]

I like everything until just before you plant. You are trying to make your move too late off the rear foot.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GxnhM5amro0#t=1m15s

 

[billyjacko]

Sorry for the bad angles here, someone put a refrigerator in my way. I'm feeling tension (spring) in my torso. Trying to figure out how to delay the shoulders, and still don't know how to brace/clear the front hip, but it looks a little better.

 

[drk_evns]

Looks a lot better to my eyes. I can see your hip clear much earlier than your arm swings through compared to a few of your more recent videos.

 

[sidewinder22]

Yeah it's a little better, but still striding/staggering front foot too much to left, and late getting off the rear foot.

 

[billyjacko]

Yeah it's a little better, but still striding/staggering front foot too much to left, and late getting off the rear foot.

More like this?

]

 

[sidewinder22]

Well you are getting off the rear side, but not getting upright on front side to swing from. Note how your rear shoulder is behind your rear hip and knee so your shoulders/hips/torso have not been leveraged forward from the ground up and allowed to swing freely. Your head/chin is collapsing into/behind your front hip.

 

[billyjacko]

Current state of affairs. Not a ton of change lately, but my throw is more consistent that it ever has been. Getting plenty of distance to compete, just missing that next gear to beat the big boys. I'm 100% sure it's because I've got lazy pace, weird short reach back, and piss poor weight shift. I'm hitting lines and consistent out to about 400'. I've broken the habit of going to the field and trying to throw 100% all the time.