Breaking Bad Timing Habit

[Melonhusk]

Inching closer I think - some throws were starting to straighten out a bit, rather than popping up, and I'm still finding that when I can get the late acceleration feeling down right the disc starts to really jump. I realized putting my keychain on my finger is a good way to feel the weight moving around, and then I was reminded of the "ball on a string" cue.




Seems like my back was a bit extended, and my swing plane was kind of starting to flatten out with my left arm flying around and all my throws pulled right. Seems like those issues tend to go hand in hand for me. Also lost the doorframe a bit, knees bent over toes at least in some clips. I thought I had a good handle on the "chin leading the nose" adjustment, but watching back I think it's really pretty much the same, maybe a few degrees less tilted towards the target.

 

[sidewinder22]

You need to move your body deeper/east leveraged inside your posture/feet. You are leaning way outside/west, if you were to attempt an Olympic Hammer or sledgehammer toss you would get tossed/pulled around by it like a rag doll.

 

[Melonhusk]

Argh - I see it, I think I can even get my body to do it when I have a doorframe to resist against, but during a throw I just can't get close to that yet without feeling out of balance. It feels like I'm going to fall backward, like all my weight is over my heels. Here's some throws from the last two days, maybe getting a little closer but definitely still too west.







If only I was a 9 year old, I'd have this figured out in no time!

 

[sidewinder22]

Do you have a long sledgehammer or kettlebell?

 

[Melonhusk]

I have a shorter sledgehammer, will this do?

 

[Melonhusk]

That was definitely eye opening! I think in general things are clicking to me that essentially what I'm looking for is to throw my COM at the target in the same way that an olympic hammer thrower keeps their weight outside their feet to counter the weight of the hammer on the other side. I was practicing that move slowly in front of a mirror last night and seeing how it led to better looking positions as far as my center and my plant shin angle. Not so easy to do at full speed!

Even though this is probably an improvement I feel like I'm still seeing the same posture issues popping up even with the hammer:






After doing some hammer throws I tried the same thing but with a disc instead.






Finally I tried replicating the same feeling in an x step. Looks about the same as yesterday to me, clearly gonna have to figure out how to transfer the feeling over better.

 

[sidewinder22]

Swing the hammer around before your body goes with it and stay more centered with your feet. Your feet are moving all around the place.

 

[Melonhusk]

Quick interlude while my back is preventing me from throwing - I found this video in the rocking the hips thread and it struck me as maybe addressing my issue as well:



Is that true? The video talks about "thrusting the hips towards the ball", and while I would describe what I do as more like "falling towards the ball" I know if I got in a mo cap setup my hips would trace a pretty similar line to the am in the video. So can I take away the same notes - keep my center pelvis moving in a straight line away from and towards the target? Set up with a <90 degree shin angle?

 

[Melonhusk]

Ok back at it. Lots of body confusion on the hammer toss today - I looked up the footwork you're supposed to use, and gave it a try, but whether I need more practice or my hammer just isn't heavy enough to swing me around the same way as a big sledge I just kept getting stuck. Here's my best attempt, I know I'm supposed to start swinging it around my head but this was the only tiny usable clip where I actually managed to release the hammer lol




Worked on moving my center pelvis in as straight a line as possible, tried to adjust my x step to make things as narrow and linear as possible. Maybe a little better? My upper body was just doing whatever it wanted, no dingle whatsoever, but hopefully I can incorporate that back in once I get this nailed down.






I'm not sure about these, but in the process of trying to get my plant shin as close to 90º angle as I could, I got the feel for sitting down behind my knee rather than falling west and it felt different than anything I've tried before. I saw an element of Schusterick or Paige in there with how low I was getting and the bent plant knee so I stuck with it. Do these look like anything?






Thanks!

 

[Brychanus]

I find any time I work with a hammer there's a fine line between you swinging the hammer and the hammer swinging you before you try to brace and toss it.

I think if you try the overhead hammer windup, it might help if you first try to toss it (1) without striding/standstill straight out of the overhead swings, then (2) with a single stride out, then (3) letting it take you into 360. Focus more on feeling the momentum of the hammer and how your contact with the ground can power it, making it easier and easier as you add momentum. As the hammer swings down to toss, you should only be building on the significant momentum that is already there as you plant to throw.

Longer handle/heavier sledge does probably make it more likely that you get the connection between the centrifugal part and legs and core action.

 

[Melonhusk]

I find any time I work with a hammer there's a fine line between you swinging the hammer and the hammer swinging you before you try to brace and toss it.

I think if you try the overhead hammer windup, it might help if you first try to toss it (1) without striding/standstill straight out of the overhead swings, then (2) with a single stride out, then (3) letting it take you into 360. Focus more on feeling the momentum of the hammer and how your contact with the ground can power it, making it easier and easier as you add momentum. As the hammer swings down to toss, you should only be building on the significant momentum that is already there as you plant to throw.

Longer handle/heavier sledge does probably make it more likely that you get the connection between the centrifugal part and legs and core action.

That makes sense! I'll try that progression next time.



In the meantime, maybe found something today. Trying to get my legs to work properly, weight not transferring well - I found that a little "flick" of my hips closed had the effect of transferring my weight quicker. Lo and behold it also helped me keep a straighter line with my hips (though of course it didn't fix it completely, can never be that easy).

 

[sidewinder22]

Terrible Terry Tate would posterize you and say "you can't come up in here with that weak posture".
SC in tilted spiral 2, would say your chest/pressure cooker lid is lifted up off, instead of chest/shoulders more tilted forward over the disc/swing/knees.

 

[Melonhusk]

Terrible Terry Tate would posterize you and say "you can't come up in here with that weak posture".
SC in tilted spiral 2, would say your chest/pressure cooker lid is lifted up off, instead of chest/shoulders more tilted forward over the disc/swing/knees.
View attachment 326978

lol, I had to look that up but I think you're probably right!

I feel like I'm missing something very fundamental here, because every time I try to make a posture adjustment one way it screws up my posture in another way. Case in point, trying to work on moving my pelvis in a straight line the other day and keep the pressure cooker lid on:



and I think both of those things were technically accomplished, superficially, but now my back is all extended and my COM is on top of my front foot again.

I took Brychanus' advice and started with standstill hammer tosses. I couldn't quite get the hammer to release behind me from the standstill, (that's what I was trying to do in these clips), but hopefully there's still something to take away from them. I definitely got the feeling of sitting back and really juicing the hammer up and around my head. Couldn't quite figure out how to make the release powerful.

 

[Melonhusk]

(Part 2)

I've also been working on 360 throws - even though I can't do them great, it definitely feels like there's potential for me to take some lessons away. I'm able to release the disc with my COM behind my feet from a 360 and it feels totally intuitive, so I'm trying to figure out how to make that happen in an x step.






This was my best attempt at applying the 360 footwork. I guess it basically felt like moving more on the inside of my back foot rather than my toe? Not sure if this is better but it's different!

 

[sidewinder22]

The 360 exposed you. Your balance is backwards and going all over the place tipping over back and forth. I think we need to put you into a gravitron ride. You would get sucked right down into the floor or your knee ear first. Simon is tilted inline to front leg so hard against the centripetal pull. You are collapsing into/over top your front leg.



Behind view - note how you are tipped over and your right leg is going out to counter balance, and your rear elbow is down/in palm up. If you reverse your rear arm twist, it should help reverse your throwing arm/disc as well and get your elbows out more instead of collapsing them in. Simon is doing the opposite swimming the rear hand out to help counter balance/leverage more aggressive tilt inside the rear leg going into the plant.

Also note how Simon's lower spine remains centered while yours sways.


I don't remember if you are naturally pigeon toed, but you are here. Looks like your rear ankle bowed out hard. Interestingly this is behind tee view, but looks like you are throwing from side view. Simon looks more like Hershyzer position, everything is stacked/centered and tilted inside posture.


You do kind of look like Tom Green.

 

[Melonhusk]

Oh god, it really does feel like I'm doing everything backwards, I know it all too well!

I came in today with new feels, and if I'm onto something here, I think it actually makes some stuff make a lot of sense which didn't quite before - like a lot of players' pre shot routines. I also had plenty of inspiration seeing all the 360s in the distance invitational and I definitely see what you mean about tilting "against the centripetal pull", especially with those big sky anhyzer distance lines they were taking.

Here's what I was basically trying to replicate with my release:




Tried some easy x steps






And 360s, copying Simon's technique. Definitely don't have the 360s as fluid and athletic as I'd like in general yet, I know they're looking a bit herky jerky but I'm sure that's partly a matter of a lot more reps.






Hopefully that's getting somewhere! It at least feels different.

 

[sidewinder22]

Much better!

 

[Melonhusk]

Awesome, thanks! Sprained/strained my middle finger throwing unfortunately, must have gotten hooked on the rim accidentally one too many times. But I know what to keep working on in 2-4 weeks lol.

 

[sidewinder22]

Probably better to practice without actually throwing anyway. Close your eyes and feel.

 

[Melonhusk]

Sprained finger starting to feel a bit better as long as I wear gloves and tape, just have to be careful, so I'm trying to pick up where I left off from before. Not totally sure if I'm getting it though! Unfortunately part of being careful is not doing more of those 360s, sort of a bummer as I was getting some great body feedback from that.


Still looks like I'm battling the issue of falling west over my plant. Here was one of my first attempts:





Tried to get lower and more coiled up, felt like it helped me use my legs a bit more.






Seems like I'm having trouble staying centered and not leaning back and forth over my plant, not sure if I'm on the right track otherwise?