Can a course be designed HERE (via Maps)?

[Gamecock]

It may be a bit premature to post about this here, but I'm gonna do it anyhow...

I think it would be cool if DGCR members (and maybe some experienced course designers here) could help me to come up with a preliminary suggested layout for a new disc golf course in a local TOWN park. After talking to the Chairman of the Summerville, SC Town Council Parks Committee, a new DG course is at least being considered!

Below is the overall park layout + links to larger/close-up view & Google maps.

http://www.parkcirclediscgolf.com/gahagan-golf.jpg

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=gahagan+park+summerville+29485&sll=33.009149,-80.170712&sspn=0.008169,0.021973&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=Gahagan+Rd,+Summerville,+South+Carolina+29485&ll=33.007332,-80.176849&spn=0.008169,0.013797&t=h&z=16

Assume for a sec you had a plot of land the size and shape of a square city block. How would YOU layout 9 holes? There are some trees to use here too...

The new DG course would go on land that's essentially never used except for overflow parking when people come to watch the town's 4th of July fireworks here. The fireworks show costs about $10K and they considered NOT having it this year as a cost-cutting measure. But, it's now been decided to have it.

The area of the park we are talking about here is essentially the top right corner of park property - below Owens Drive and left of W. Boundary St.

There is a driveway entrance to this property that is always closed by chain. This could be an entrance to a course, but it might need to remain closed (except for July 4th). There are about 9 old used tires on this land and they could be rolled to show where the various baskets could be placed.

My thinking is, putting a basket out in the middle of this field is just asking for a car to knock it over on July 4th. I'd feel better if all were "protected".

After going out there to scope the property out in person, I couldn't help but notice a bunch of old rusting metal bleachers. If those are disassembled and hauled off to a scrap metal yard, that might be enough cash to buy 9 Innova Discatcher baskets! If not, well, the difference in cost is still very affordable!

If you zoom in all the way at Google maps, you can see the line of old rusting bleachers. Those need to go anyhow as they may be habitat for snakes now.

If you use don't want to use above link to view the area in Google Maps, try the phrase "Gahagan Park Summerville SC 29485" and you will find it. The empty field we are talking about is to right + above the 4 large softball fields together. It would be nice to have another 9 going all the way around the outer edge of the park, but that might cause problems during the softball playoffs which are held here annually (and brings in revenue to town).

Has anybody else tried using the forum to get layout feedback/suggestions in advance? I mentioned to the Parks Committee chairman it is usually wise to hire a professional course designer for the layout in advance and he agreed.

But the thought of creating a possible, suggested layout is a real temptation! There are NO Elevation Changes at all here (in SC Lowcountry)...

Again, if you had just a big empty field, how would YOU lay it out so there's no criss-crossing of fairways? Just going around outside is too easy + boring!

Thanks in advance for ANY ideas, tips, warnings, etc. for us to keep in mind!

 

[Gamecock]

Here's an enlargement of the area for course to use...

Here's the empty version of a map that can be used by anybody for example(s).

Here's a quick example of how the course COULD be designed (using this image).

If you don't have any software to use to draw lines and put numbers by them, I might suggest you download and install the superb FREEWARE program called IrfanView. This program has been downloaded more than 50 Million times and is very highly rated for being very fast and intuitive. So easy, no manual reading is needed!

http://www.irfanview.com/

Thanks in advance for ANY input you might have to get this project moving forward... I will try to get some photos of the property if anyone needs it.

 

[Donovan]

It is not a exciting layout, but you may be able to build the course into a bicycle spoke wheel pattern and get 12 holes out of that area. Plus, this would get the pin placements with some tree obstacles involved.

 

[Gamecock]

It is not a exciting layout...

I know my quick example isn't exciting. It's to show a design too easy + boring!

The area with tress in the middle seemed to be holding more than its share of water when I was walking in that area. That could present another problem...

Thanks for your input!

 

[billnchristy]

Here is my take:

All baskets are in the perimeter tree area to prevent car hittage. I am going to assume natural tees, this will allow you to use the access road and the parking lot, coming up with markers might be interesting though.

1 and 2 utilize trees in the field
3 uses the access road, lot entrance and then tucks into the trees
4 uses what looks like a maintenance shed access road and tucks into trees
5 is on the fringe of the lot, hopefully that is ok
6 goes back into the trees and uses the bigger tree on the edge of the lot as a sort of dogleg
7 follows the tree line
8 is a tweener because I cannot add but I wanted a long hole
9 is a long hole that hugs the tree line and then tucks into the woods before the access road

 

[cydisc]

It is not a exciting layout, but you may be able to build the course into a bicycle spoke wheel pattern and get 12 holes out of that area.

Please don't cram a bunch of holes into such a small site.

This area is roughly 8 acres. Ideally, you would want 2-3 acres per hole. 1 acre/hole will fit a 9 hole pitch n putt. And don't forget you need to avoid siting holes in proximity to the streets and other park uses, routing them in a direction away from those conflicts. This greatly reduces the effective area you have to work with. With care, I think it could be done on this site if you employed a proven designer for an on-site consult.

 

[Gamecock]

Here is my take:

Thank you VERY much for taking a shot at a possible layout for this property!

I'll have to admit it. The first one I made was downright LOUSY! :thmbdown:

Here's a MUCH better one! :thmbup:

The area in the center down at the bottom is an existing kid's playground, so we have to make sure to keep any errant throws from landing anywhere by it.

I went by there today and counted THIRTEEN rusting metal bleacher sections! Not sure how much they weigh, but at about $1.50 per pound, that might be enough to buy a set of 10 Discatcher baskets (an extra for practicing putts).

I would love for this site to be good enough to become home course for a new Summervile High School disc golf team and a Summerville Open tourney!

I also saw the tree buffers along the 3 roads (2 paved, 1 dirt) are rather thin - not enough to contain an entire hole. The start/end area really needs to be near the kiddie playground, as that is the closest to the parking area too.

If anybody else wants to take another shot at a possible layout for this area, please be our guest. A meeting on this property with town park officials has been set for next Monday morning (around 10:30 AM). Still very preliminary, but it's encouraging they have shown as much interest as they have so far!

 

[Gamecock]

Please don't cram a bunch of holes into such a small site.

This area is roughly 8 acres. Ideally, you would want 2-3 acres per hole. 1 acre/hole will fit a 9 hole pitch n putt. And don't forget you need to avoid siting holes in proximity to the streets and other park uses, routing them in a direction away from those conflicts. This greatly reduces the effective area you have to work with. With care, I think it could be done on this site if you employed a proven designer for an on-site consult.

Thanks for making your calculation as to how many acres are on this property! It might be possible to route another 9 holes around the outside of this park, I'm not sure. The above area could be the beginner course (or the Easy 9). It might make more sense to have multiple pin locations and/or 2 tees per hole before we even think about creating any advanced back 9 too.

 

[billnchristy]

Could you mark off the areas that can't be used and I will take another crack at it tomorrow at work?

I think I got what you are talking about but I want to see it to fully get it.

Could that road that I used for 3 be used or would it eat discs up (dont know the make up of the road).

 

[Gamecock]

There are definitely some areas we need to avoid here!

Could you mark off the areas that can't be used and I will take another crack at it tomorrow at work?

Sure!

On the left side (marked by red line), there is a One Way dirt road along side of what looks like a National Guard unit area. That has a fence with BARBED WIRE at the top, so must use the trees on that side to protect discs going in there! That's why we need 2 shorter holes on that side to be safe as well...

The kiddie playground is marked of by the other 2 red lines. We sure don't want any little kids in there getting hit by a bad shot! #1 tee going away from there and a shorter #9 finishing hole coming back there makes sense.

As I recall, there's a slightly overgrown dirt access road along yellow line to avoid as well. The blue lines show a typically wet area that would be no fun to walk in if there is a recent rain (rained here last Monday - still looks wet).

The part in the middle that is not cut grass looks too swampy for ANY tee OR basket to me. That should be avoided too. I did not look behind (or around) those old metal bleachers because it looks too much like ideal snake habitat.

The SAFE area to play in kinda looks like shape of Arc De Triomphe in Paris - tilted to the right a bit.

I think I got what you are talking about but I want to see it to fully get it.

Hopefully, my map with places to avoid will make that more clear to you (and everyone else) now.

Could that road that I used for 3 be used or would it eat discs up (dont know the make up of the road).

No. Trees along that border need to be used to shield any discs going over that barbed wire fence! Let's just assume anyone seen climbing that fence will be considered a terrorist and might be shot on sight. LOL Better safe than sorry!

The closer a basket is to any of those 3 roads, the more discs that will fly onto those roads. We need to try to insure that will be a very RARE event! For new players, I tried to leave room to the left of a basket since typical right-handed backhand throws will tend to fade that way. Follow me?

There are enough trees to protect errant throws if we don't tuck any basket too deep. On the edge of the big clearing should work just fine I would think.

My new #3 probably has to be the longest hole on the course, as that side is about the only place where a big arm would be able to throw one really hard.

I'll try to go by and take some pictures this weekend if possible. The grass was just cut recently, so they should look nice. I'm getting excited about it!

Thanks again for your interest to possibly whip up another possible layout! I wish this property offered some more possibilities, but (again) better safe than sorry. We'd like to have 4' by 12' cement tee pads too, but those might have to wait to make sure we don't need to move a hole to have an ideal workable layout. I'd be happy to have this 9 as just a pitch and putt!

Please wish us Good Luck at making this local dream become a new reality.

 

[SmoothSailor]

The blue outline is a path through the woods for people to walk to each parking lot from the end of hole 9.

 

[Dave242]

Smooth - I like how you are the first person to suggest using some wooded fairways (2 & 7), but I am not a big fan of hole 9 ending across the park from hole 1.

 

[SmoothSailor]

Smooth - I like how you are the first person to suggest using some wooded fairways (2 & 7), but I am not a big fan of hole 9 ending across the park from hole 1.

Yeah :doh:. By the time I got around to the end of it I was like, "Oh well, already walking."

 

[Dave242]

This might work for an interesting beginner level course. It has a mix of wooded, semi-wooded and open holes, a couple of holes with choices (5 & its mirror image 7), and a true par 4 (for 220' throwers) finishing hole. It should be safe with throwers throwing into open areas and many tees guarded by trees. Flow is pretty good. Of course lengths and shapes would be tweaked for more variation and a better fit into existing features/obstacles.

 

[Gamecock]

The blue outline is a path through the woods for people to walk to each parking lot from the end of hole 9.

Thanks for your suggestion(s) Smooth!

That middle area (hole through Arc De Triomphe example) is considered too wet to park a car. So wet, your shoes may sink down enough to fill your up shoes with water - not fun. The tree areas on the outside are all dry by comparison.

If there is to be a tee coming out of these woods, it almost HAS to be on outside. Summerville SC is known as the "Flower Town in the Pines", so I'm afraid cutting down ANY tree here (especially a Pine) will not be allowed. No kidding, EVERY tree that someone wants to be cut down MUST be approved by town officials beforehand. We'll have to work around the trees there now.

I know all straight shots is considered boring, but not much room at all for any dogleg(s) here. I could see Lefty or forehand throwers really liking the layout I came up with. If a basket was behind a tree in middle, that could open up the option to approach it from either side with a long curved throw.

I'm afraid your idea for a path around outside won't work too well. There is only one ideal parking lot for the course (in front of the kids playground). I think the others (mostly for softball/baseball) are simply too far away to use.

I do appreciate you taking the time to whip up a possible layout. We really don't know yet, but we might use a combination of various suggestions here.

Thanks again!

 

[Gamecock]

I am not a big fan of hole 9 ending across the park from hole 1.

I would agree with you on that! It's good to get those who have finished a round off the course (and out of the way for other players) as soon as possible.

I think we really need to have both the first tee AND finishing basket near the kids playground (with a buffer of trees to protect the kids from errant throws).

 

[Gamecock]

This might work for an interesting beginner level course. It has a mix of wooded, semi-wooded and open holes, a couple of holes with choices (5 & its mirror image 7), and a true par 4 (for 220' throwers) finishing hole. It should be safe with throwers throwing into open areas and many tees guarded by trees. Flow is pretty good. Of course lengths and shapes would be tweaked for more variation and a better fit into existing features/obstacles.

Thanks for your course suggestion Dave! Your hole #1 is what I envisioned at first too, although I don't have capability to draw decent looking curved lines. That's main reason I didn't show a dogleg or a curved line option. LOL

On your hole #9 however, those without a big arm might have their drive land in middle swamp. It's SO wet in there, many people would want to walk all the way around it (to avoid sinking in mud) - thereby getting in way of other players.

Maybe I should have said that middle section contains dangerous quicksand? Yes, it's THAT bad!

It might be quicksand for all I know right now! Hehe I have to check it out a little better, but I want to keep my distance from the rusting old bleachers...

 

[Dave242]

On your hole #9 however, those without a big arm might have their drive land in middle swamp. It's SO wet in there, many people would want to walk all the way around it (to avoid sinking in mud) - thereby getting in way of other players.

Maybe I should have said that middle section contains dangerous quicksand? Yes, it's THAT bad!

It might be quicksand for all I know right now! Hehe I have to check it out a little better, but I want to keep my distance from the rusting old bleachers...

Bummer. You certainly do not want the landing zone in a swamp. You could do this and put a bridge/boardwalk in. (Plus I like Bing Maps' birdseye views!)

 

[billnchristy]

Dude that view is waaaay better...gives an idea of what its really like.

 

[Gamecock]

WOW! Bing map is MUCH more clear for showing where the trees are located. It also shows the parking lot where people would park when playing the course.

That building down in bottom left may be where the park officials are working, I don't know. We sure wouldn't want any discs hitting that building or landing on its roof! I believe I will get to see a plot map of the overall park property soon.

Did you save a copy of that map before you added in your layout suggestions?

If so, could you please post a blank version of the map? That would really help.

Thanks again very much!