Can you knock snow off a branch?

[glassila]

If a branch is hanging low due to snow (or water) weighing it down, can you tap the branch to remove the snow/water so it springs back to it's natural position?

(I'm guessing the answer will be "No", but I want to see what the actual rule is since this situation occurs a lot when playing in the snow in my area.)

 

[Future_Primitive]

Best guess. Behind your lie yes. In front of your lie no.

 

[_MTL_]

Answer is no:

803.01 covers it - https://www.pdga.com/rules/official-rules-disc-golf/80301

Basically in this situation you are absolutely not choosing a stance that is resulting in the least movement of obstacles. Also, a player can only move things that are on the playing surface where a stance can be taken. The air is not a playing surface and the tree branches are not where a supporting point can be placed.

 

[ThrowBot]

If my throw knocks the snow off a branch, am I required to put that snow back on top of the branch?

 

[tampora]

Answer is no:

803.01 covers it - https://www.pdga.com/rules/official-rules-disc-golf/80301

Basically in this situation you are absolutely not choosing a stance that is resulting in the least movement of obstacles. Also, a player can only move things that are on the playing surface where a stance can be taken. The air is not a playing surface and the tree branches are not where a supporting point can be placed.

A player is not allowed to move any obstacle on the course, with the following exceptions:
A player may move casual obstacles that are on the playing surface where a supporting point may be placed when taking a stance. A casual obstacle is any item or collection of loose debris (such as stones, leaves, twigs, or unconnected branches)

Would snow be loose debris?

 

[jupiterboy]

If my throw knocks the snow off a branch, am I required to put that snow back on top of the branch?

No, but if a single flake falls from a branch as you approach your disc, they remove you and place you in a pit for seven days. (80301.a.1ZDR5431x)

 

[BogeyNoMore]

If my throw knocks the snow off a branch, am I required to put that snow back on top of the branch?

:clap: :clap: :clap:

 

[BogeyNoMore]

Best guess. Behind your lie yes. In front of your lie no.

Had I not read Mr. Leonard's response, I have been inclined to buy this.

 

[txmxer]

You can't move anything in front of your lie. I suppose the exception might be something placed temporarily by a person such as a bag.

Example: Players can ask people to move back from the playing area. We've seen this happen this year along OB lines and occasionally when crowds have encroached into IB areas.

 

[wolfhaley]

But snow is mostly air. How's that any different than displacing air in front of my lie by, say, fanning my hand off with a disc, or passing gas for that matter? When throwing patent pending of course.

 

[txmxer]

But snow is mostly air. How's that any different than displacing air in front of my lie by, say, fanning my hand off with a disc, or passing gas for that matter? When throwing patent pending of course.

give it a shot. If you can fan the snow off a branch without touching it, I'd say no harm no foul.

 

[wolfhaley]

give it a shot. If you can fan the snow off a branch without touching it, I'd say no harm no foul.

I'll cook up some beans right now.

 

[txmxer]

I'll cook up some beans right now.

"back blast area clear!"

 

[krupicka]

Would snow be loose debris?

The rule regarding loose debris only applies to casual obstacles on the playing surface. The branch is not a playing surface.

 

[tampora]

The rule regarding loose debris only applies to casual obstacles on the playing surface. The branch is not a playing surface.

The question still remains unanswered.

 

[dmoore1998]

The question still remains unanswered.

Does it? Seems pretty clear from 803.01.B

B. A player is not allowed to move any obstacle on the course, with the following exceptions:
1. A player may move casual obstacles that are on the playing surface where a supporting point may be placed when taking a stance. A casual obstacle is any item or collection of loose debris (such as stones, leaves, twigs, or unconnected branches), or any item as designated by the Director.
2. A player may request that other people move themselves or their belongings.
3. A player may restore course equipment to its proper working order, including the removal of obstacles.

Which of the 1, 2, or 3 numbered exceptions do you think would allow a player to intentionally knock snow off a branch? It would have to be #1 right? Because #2 is about people and belongings, and #3 is about course equipment.

And #1 refers to the playing surface...a branch in the air is not a playing surface.

So it's very clear that 803.01B does not allow you to move the snow, because it references "any obstacle on the course"...so for it to be legal one would need to find a specific rule that DOES allow for it in order to contradict that wide-spanning rule against it.

 

[dmoore1998]

Would snow be loose debris?

I would say yes...which means you can clear out the snow on the playing surface where a supporting point may be placed when taking a stance. The "loose debris" is specific to the playing surface and supporting points for a stance though.

 

[jupiterboy]

Does it? Seems pretty clear from 803.01.B

B. A player is not allowed to move any obstacle on the course, with the following exceptions:
1. A player may move casual obstacles that are on the playing surface where a supporting point may be placed when taking a stance. A casual obstacle is any item or collection of loose debris (such as stones, leaves, twigs, or unconnected branches), or any item as designated by the Director.
2. A player may request that other people move themselves or their belongings.
3. A player may restore course equipment to its proper working order, including the removal of obstacles.

Which of the 1, 2, or 3 numbered exceptions do you think would allow a player to intentionally knock snow off a branch? It would have to be #1 right? Because #2 is about people and belongings, and #3 is about course equipment.

And #1 refers to the playing surface...a branch in the air is not a playing surface.

So it's very clear that 803.01B does not allow you to move the snow, because it references "any obstacle on the course"...so for it to be legal one would need to find a specific rule that DOES allow for it in order to contradict that wide-spanning rule against it.

So "intent" is the modification you've made, and I can well imagine that moving around in the brush is going to unintentionally remove quite a bit of snow. Now nobody can judge the intent here, and we could also apply this to leaves in the fall, rain drops, etc. Seems like there needs be a clarification.

 

[dmoore1998]

So "intent" is the modification you've made, and I can well imagine that moving around in the brush is going to unintentionally remove quite a bit of snow. Now nobody can judge the intent here, and we could also apply this to leaves in the fall, rain drops, etc. Seems like there needs be a clarification.

I included intent because the OP seems pretty clearly to be talking about intentionally tapping a tree branch to knock the snow off.

There's also an inherent assumption built in that we're talking about something near your lie.

Nobody is getting stroked because they reached up and grabbed a leaf off of a tree as they walked from the basket to the next teepad. They're also not getting stroked because as they walk they're moving loose debris (like leaves). You walk ahead of your lie to check out your line in the woods with leaves all over the ground, nobody is stroking you because you caused leaves to move somewhere in the fairway ahead of your lie...even though that's on the playing surface where you're clearly not going to have a supporting point. Theoretically, you would need to clarify all of that too...because that all would appear to technically be a violation (i.e. how am I allowed to walk on leaves on a course without technically moving obstacles which are specifically called out as leaves as an example).

 

[jupiterboy]

I included intent because the OP seems pretty clearly to be talking about intentionally tapping a tree branch to knock the snow off.

There's also an inherent assumption built in that we're talking about something near your lie.

Nobody is getting stroked because they reached up and grabbed a leaf off of a tree as they walked from the basket to the next teepad. They're also not getting stroked because as they walk they're moving loose debris (like leaves). You walk ahead of your lie to check out your line in the woods with leaves all over the ground, nobody is stroking you because you caused leaves to move somewhere in the fairway ahead of your lie...even though that's on the playing surface where you're clearly not going to have a supporting point. Theoretically, you would need to clarify all of that too...because that all would appear to technically be a violation (i.e. how am I allowed to walk on leaves on a course without technically moving obstacles which are specifically called out as leaves as an example).

I've had a lie under an evergreen branch in the snow and have buried myself getting back in behind it where I could even size up the shot. Was the branch I bumped extending in front of the disc? Many times, yes, because if you hit one snowy branch it's going to drop its snow and spring back up and largely empty that side of the tree. I simply don't think there should be any consideration of a penalty stroke in that scenario.