biscoe
* Ace Member *
irrelevant... Bobby Jones wasn't beating his fellow "competitors" by 80 strokes.
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Can you play in pro and am worlds in the same year
- Thread starter joshmo65
- Start date
Cgkdisc
.:Hall of Fame Member:.
The fact there are pro and am legends and for that matter, any player over 49 doesn't make a lot of sense. We should all be Ams and just play for cash with side bets unofficially.
WhiteyBear
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Bobby Jones didn't accept payouts. And winning the grand slam included winning the amateur championship back then. Something golf historians forget.
Well, neither does Pete (accept payout). So I'm not sure what the issue is.
And the "grand slam" included winning the amateurs back then because Bobby Jones invented the concept. He bet he could win all four "majors" (US Open, US Amateur, British Open, British Amateur) in one year, did it (1930), and then retired from competitive golf. He couldn't have completed the modern grand slam at the time because he was not allowed to play the PGA Championship (pros only) and the Masters didn't exist yet (he helped found Augusta National and the tournament).
Cgkdisc
.:Hall of Fame Member:.
Pete doesn't accept cash payouts either for his pro wins (but will wager on the side.)
joshmo65
Eagle Member
It is going to sell out just as fast as last year. Would they take an am off of the wait list before taking an invitee?
joshmo65
Eagle Member
And I guess more importantly, can I sign up on the wait list if I am not an invitee?
Pete May also won the title in 2014, this time by only 75 strokes.
http://www.pdga.com/tour/event/16384
WhiteyBear
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Since when does winning a stack of plastic no count as payout?
Should I, as a TD, not ever payout AMs again?
Keep justifying when we let a pro world champion still be classified as an AM. Still a huge flaw in the system.
stop, we all know we are talking about the 2 divisions that actually matter...maybe, MAYBE 3. Am Worlds, Pro Open Men Worlds, and "maybe" Pro Masters Worlds. Heck throw in USDGC too. We are not worried about the 1 90 year old disc golfer beating 2 players in open and then beating 2 players in Am worlds. You wont see an Am Worlds Winner win any one of Pro Worlds, Pro Master Worlds, or USDGC in the same year.
Its like all this talk about impeaching the president. It will never happen, republican leadership doesnt even want to investigate making it happen, yet its all democrats, republicans, the president, the press secretary and political talk shows are talking about. Just a fake story, like a Kardashian marriage, like this one. It wont happen why give it any more thought.
WhiteyBear
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Imagine if it were something more tangible, like a female winning pro world's in open women, them fling back and winning am world's in advanced women. Would you still think that way?
If the woman didn't accept the cash, I wouldn't bat an eye to her winning pro worlds and going back to am worlds.
Pro and am ARE NOT DESIGNATIONS OF SKILL. There is no such thing as being "too good" to be an amateur.
Kelsy Brakel is good enough to do this. If she was on wooded courses, I'd seriously take her against any woman in the world. If you were limited to 3 discs...I'd put money on her. But no I do not consider the Open or Am women to be mature well established divisions. We all play tournaments... and there are threads and threads about payout out the entire field of 3 women. A few local organizers here pay out every woman regardless of field size. That is not a legitimate division. If you start seeing womens tournaments fill in a few days or the need to split tournaments because of the ladies strong presence...maybe... If they got up 60-70% of the participation rate of men, I would say sure... Im not sure the range, based on the physical limitations would be as great though bottom to top. Do I think we will see a 1045 rated woman, no...unless there was a 1100 rated male. So, I think the womans division is more compressed, easier to win both, currently and even in the future. There is a lot to be done before you can compare the 2.
Additionally, girls like Kelsy play advanced men (which is like playing up) for more competition. So they stay Am for that because there is no pro women's presence in their area (or its the same 3 girls separated by 50 strokes). So for the time being, you kind of have to let women stay Am if they want so they can get real competition (if they arent traveling players) throughout the year.
Additionally, girls like Kelsy play advanced men (which is like playing up) for more competition. So they stay Am for that because there is no pro women's presence in their area (or its the same 3 girls separated by 50 strokes). So for the time being, you kind of have to let women stay Am if they want so they can get real competition (if they arent traveling players) throughout the year.
GT Chris
Birdie Member
This. So much this. This is hands down the best post I have ever seen on this site.
Nice. Keep that where you can cut & paste it. I'm sure it will come in handy in future threads.
biscoe
* Ace Member *
True... however there are less well defined limits of sportsmanship and good taste which seem to me to be considerably exceeded when a pro world champion steps down to an am division where he bests his "competition" by 20 strokes per round.
WhiteyBear
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I would 1,000% agree with this, if we didn't payout AMs in merch.
Make AM a true AM category, zero payouts, trophy only, maybe a decent players packs. Stop feeding the beast.
"decent players packs" Similar thing as a payout. Still get 3 discs and some junk (you can sell) for just entering a tournament...
WhiteyBear
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Let me clarify it then. I don't believe in "equal value" across the board for all tournaments, that feeds the "well what do I get out of it?" mentality.
When I am saying, is that if you charge $50, give them a little something to take home to remember the tournament. If you charge $20, do they really need a disc? The answer is no.
For majors, trophy only, giving winners hundreds of dollars in payout is not the same as giving them a tournament disc as a players pack, that's common sense.
Feeding AMs payouts is the same as being Pro, hence AMs can go out and "make money" selling their payouts. We have several of those in our state.
Out of curiosity, had this player not played (and won) at Pro Worlds that one year, which happened to be a combined Pro/Am year, would he be violating your limits of sportsmanship and good taste winning his amateur division by ~20 strokes per round? Because of one win, where he beat players not so dissimilarity rated from the ones he's beaten in Am (save for Shive, I suppose), he shouldn't ever again be allowed to play a division which is 100% based on age rather than skill level?
Realistically, is there even a need to have separate divisions for "pro" legends and "am" legends, at least at the same event/venue? Combine them, pay out in cash or prizes based on the player's preference and call it good, IMO.
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