Chainstarred???

[slowplastic]

Whenever these things come up I notice a bit of a trend...

I think the more recently you have begun playing, and with so much youtube footage available, the goal seems to be to drill the chains. So chains that don't catch all the time are annoying.

While people who have been playing for longer, the more they seem to have adapted to whatever baskets or situations, and want to get the disc in the basket rather than hit the chains the same way every time.

 

[Orioles_Lefty]

Instead of making baskets smaller, they need to make them require more touch. I'm not sure a basket that is made to accept rocket putts (most of the newer pro designs) will also have enough chain give to receive softer putts. Putting involves both speed and direction, and speed is getting privileged. Granted, having said that, a misdirected hard putt introduces some risk. I regularly play on Prodigys and they've forced me to putt straighter (pole dead center) and harder.

So, in conclusion, it's really hard to design a basket that will only have strengths and no limitations.

 

[Hampstead]

Seems like only yesterday that folks 'round these parts were complaining that putting was too easy and that baskets needed fewer chains to make it harder to putt.

 

[tbird888]

All this over a bad putt.

 

[BrotherDave]

Seems like only yesterday that folks 'round these parts were complaining that putting was too easy and that baskets needed fewer chains to make it harder to putt.

Yeah, the ol' back and forth between "Make Putting Hard Again" versus #ResistSpit-Outs.

Didn't look any worse than Niko's on #8.

Have to tip my cap to James Conrad... damned impressive way to start a round!

That spit-out was egregiously bad. My only problem with spit-outs is the basket's dimensions were supposedly modeled after the upper torso of a person so that basket mimics someone you're playing catch with. A dead-center putt at slow velocity is the most catch-able thing in the world so it does irk me to see ones like Nikko and Sexton's.

I was thinking the same thing. Discatcher 28's can and will do that same spit. You will never hear Big Sexy complain about Discatchers or Ian and Corey complain about Portals.

Not true. There was an event last year where DiscCatchers were spitting out putts and Big Jerm was actually fairly critical IMO. It wasn't long after the x-out/Ledgestone spit out-gates earlier that year I think. Fair and Balanced Jerm.

 

[Casey 1988]

Only basket I have seen that is bad is the old style of Prodigy basket with the links that connect the chain sets to one another on the outer set as well as the inner set. They have spit outs unless you are a slam putter or can hit the sweet spot dead on. I mean if they were causing problems for players at last years PT championships and having spit outs at 15 feet and in something is wrong. The newer Prodigy baskets are only having the inner set like this not both, as spit outs happened on older baskets unless you were so hard a putter you have putts on other baskets bounce out if you hit the pole or go thought the basket chains almost 100% of the time.

 

[Casey 1988]

Instead of making baskets smaller, they need to make them require more touch. I'm not sure a basket that is made to accept rocket putts (most of the newer pro designs) will also have enough chain give to receive softer putts. Putting involves both speed and direction, and speed is getting privileged. Granted, having said that, a misdirected hard putt introduces some risk. I regularly play on Prodigys and they've forced me to putt straighter (pole dead center) and harder.

So, in conclusion, it's really hard to design a basket that will only have strengths and no limitations.

Are they the newer or the older style of top level Prodigy basket? Older will have both inner and outer baskets have the sideways linking of chains togther and require a mega slam putt to make it in the basket. The newer baskets have the inner set only with sideways links and they are much better baskets, only super light putts will not make it into the basket and harder putts are what you need but not the maga slam putts as fast and as hard as putting has ever bin done as with the old style.

 

[broomerang]

I think there's one thing most every disc golfer might agree upon in this area of disc golf: all the current target options have obvious flaws and could well stand improvement, which will better the game's quality for every player.

While most of the people on this forum would probably agree. The average disc golfer is probably thinking about the basket design 0% of the time. Most of their failures putting can probably be attributed to being poor at putting too.

Are pro's thinking about it 1% of the time? Probably. Does it affect their ability to play at a high level? Nope, or at least it shouldn't affect a high-level competitor. This is something the "pro tour" might need to address in the future as payouts get larger and sponsors are shelling out more money.

Until then I think the current situation is fine. Pros should be able to adjust. Putting hard is not a bad skill. Putting with good touch isn't a bad skill either. Neither should be penalized as long as the catch rate is comparable on "good" putts. Most baskets catch plenty of "bad putts" too, sometimes you just get lucky (or unlucky).

I personally believe some of the baskets suck, and I believe some of them are very good. A bad basket doesn't stop me from playing a course. Outside of that one Ledgestone tourney with the cheap portable baskets I don't remember seeing a tour event that had major issues.

 

[Casey 1988]

Time to go back to tone poles.

I would say Cone holes. Those require extra accuracy more then a tone pole and can sell top part for already existing disc golf baskets on courses. Also the Cone Baskets can have proof without needing a person standing near tone pole to tell if they hit basket.

 

[Casey 1988]

While most of the people on this forum would probably agree. The average disc golfer is probably thinking about the basket design 0% of the time. Most of their failures putting can probably be attributed to being poor at putting too.

Are pro's thinking about it 1% of the time? Probably. Does it affect their ability to play at a high level? Nope, or at least it shouldn't affect a high-level competitor. This is something the "pro tour" might need to address in the future as payouts get larger and sponsors are shelling out more money.

Until then I think the current situation is fine. Pros should be able to adjust. Putting hard is not a bad skill. Putting with good touch isn't a bad skill either. Neither should be penalized as long as the catch rate is comparable on "good" putts. Most baskets catch plenty of "bad putts" too, sometimes you just get lucky (or unlucky).

I personally believe some of the baskets suck, and I believe some of them are very good. A bad basket doesn't stop me from playing a course. Outside of that one Ledgestone tourney with the cheap portable baskets I don't remember seeing a tour event that had major issues.

Look at the old top of the line Prodigy baskets at the Pro Tour Championships. The ones in the lest round were having to 2 putt on slower putts in the 15-20 foot range simply due to the baskets spitting out putts that were not mega slam putts. It was not until one point that Paul gets his Champion Aviar 3 or Champion AviarX3 out that he starts making putts as with his McBeth Aviar's he was not due to the kind of baskets the old top of the line Prodigy baskets they were. Also saw others on same card change up his putting style, making it slam putt to reflect the baskets he was putting into.

 

[broomerang]

Look at the old top of the line Prodigy baskets at the Pro Tour Championships. The ones in the lest round were having to 2 putt on slower putts in the 15-20 foot range simply due to the baskets spitting out putts that were not mega slam putts. It was not until one point that Paul gets his Champion Aviar 3 or Champion AviarX3 out that he starts making putts as with his McBeth Aviar's he was not due to the kind of baskets the old top of the line Prodigy baskets they were. Also saw others on same card change up his putting style, making it slam putt to reflect the baskets he was putting into.

Haven't seen it, but that would bring the total up to 2 events? Even if it was 20 events in the last 10 years, that is a pretty darn small percentage.

I don't have any love for the prodigy baskets either but I can't say they affected my ability to play a solid round.

The only baskets I've ever putted on that bother me were in disrepair. All baskets that were properly maintained have been fine. (and we've got LOTS of old baskets in these parts)

 

[Hampstead]

Do we have to go through this again? If you are a good putter, you can putt with any putter on any basket. Technique trumps equipment.

 

[GoldeyeGolf]

Look at the old top of the line Prodigy baskets at the Pro Tour Championships. The ones in the lest round were having to 2 putt on slower putts in the 15-20 foot range simply due to the baskets spitting out putts that were not mega slam putts. It was not until one point that Paul gets his Champion Aviar 3 or Champion AviarX3 out that he starts making putts as with his McBeth Aviar's he was not due to the kind of baskets the old top of the line Prodigy baskets they were. Also saw others on same card change up his putting style, making it slam putt to reflect the baskets he was putting into.

I watched all of that tournament, and I don't remember McBeth having any putting problems at all.

 

[Casey 1988]

I watched all of that tournament, and I don't remember McBeth having any putting problems at all.

Then one of the players on the same card had problems putting on those older Prodigy baskets.

 

[Casey 1988]

Haven't seen it, but that would bring the total up to 2 events? Even if it was 20 events in the last 10 years, that is a pretty darn small percentage.

I don't have any love for the prodigy baskets either but I can't say they affected my ability to play a solid round.

The only baskets I've ever putted on that bother me were in disrepair. All baskets that were properly maintained have been fine. (and we've got LOTS of old baskets in these parts)

Only baskets I have had major problems on other then those in disrepair that I have used were the old original Mach I. Most modern discs that are not the big toy style discs and Wham-O toy Frisbee's tend to skip through the baskets no matter how light you putt or if disc is over 150 grams to putt unless you putt into the pole. Yes I had to play on one on a course that had original style Mach II but one of the baskets a person must had removed the inner set of chains due to rust and never replaced them. The discs went through the chains no matter how light you putted unless you hit the pole. The other old Mach II were fine to putt on once you found how hard you could putt into the basket which is about like the older basket catcher Mach III.

 

[Casey 1988]

I have seen most of The second Round of the World Disc Golf Championships and I see the setup of the chains on those new Chainstar Pro baskets seem to want to push putts out of the basket. Seems the baskets do not Catch the edge putts like Nate Sexton's first putt. Those edge putts would have been caught by the Innova Discatchers that seem to be one of the more forgiving brands of baskets on the Pro tour.

 

[curmudgeonDwindle]

While most of the people on this forum would probably agree. The average disc golfer is probably thinking about the basket design 0% of the time. Most of their failures putting can probably be attributed to being poor at putting too.

Are pro's thinking about it 1% of the time? Probably. Does it affect their ability to play at a high level? Nope, or at least it shouldn't affect a high-level competitor. This is something the "pro tour" might need to address in the future as payouts get larger and sponsors are shelling out more money.

Until then I think the current situation is fine. Pros should be able to adjust. Putting hard is not a bad skill. Putting with good touch isn't a bad skill either. Neither should be penalized as long as the catch rate is comparable on "good" putts. Most baskets catch plenty of "bad putts" too, sometimes you just get lucky (or unlucky).

I personally believe some of the baskets suck, and I believe some of them are very good. A bad basket doesn't stop me from playing a course. Outside of that one Ledgestone tourney with the cheap portable baskets I don't remember seeing a tour event that had major issues.

This is reasonable and what most high-level players do instinctively - they adapt or die. What I'm doing here is making a comparison to the targets in golf and suggesting that the disc golf target is not 'neutral' enough, in addition to having wildly differing actions depending on make/model. I believe the sport would be more credible to a wider audience if the targets' action did not influence shot-making to the degree and for the reasons that they obviously do. I also believe a more 'neutral' target would increase everyone's satisfaction with the game and to a large measure eliminate these types of silly complaints. More simply, we shouldn't be complaining about 'standardized' equipment...fwiw

 

[EarthRocker]

There might be a quicker way of finding out, but can anyone tell me what the hell those baskets are at Earlewood in Columbia, SC? My son had a football game nearby, so I was able to get in a dozen holes before kickoff...Really fun little course, I must say. (I won't comment on a 285-foot par 4, though. Nope, won't even mention it.)

I had never seen anything like those baskets before. Plastic dome on top, and the chains don't "ring" in a pleasing, musical way; they sound dead, and definitely don't "accept" a hard-ish spin-putt, so I found myself lofting a bit more, which seemed to help.

Take me to school, please.

 

[joecoin]

Based on putting statistics, the baskets are already at that point for pros.

If putting was actually the act of landing in the basket, the percent of putts made would go down with the cube of the distance. That's because three dimensions would have to be correct: up/down, right/left, forward/back. However, the percent of putts made actually goes down in proportion to the square of the distance from the target. That means forward/back is not a factor for pros. In other words, pros don't land in a basket, they hit a target...

Correct me if I'm wrong, but if you are sampling ALL putts, you would be including those rare putts that don't touch the chains. Wouldn't that affect the the way to calculate the percent of putts made with and without chains?

 

[Steve West]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but if you are sampling ALL putts, you would be including those rare putts that don't touch the chains. Wouldn't that affect the the way to calculate the percent of putts made with and without chains?

I'm not sure what you're getting at. I never calculated the percent of putts that would be made without the chains. I'm just saying the current baskets are only sensitive to the up/down and right/left accuracy of pro putts.