Can you counterfeit a rare disc like a '15 Sexton?

[SocraDeez]

Disc golf as a sport is unique in that its basic unit, the golf disc, functions as both sporting equipment and collectible item. Most collectible golf discs are off-the-shelf collectible, meaning that, unlike say Baseball, professional player autographs or proximity to Great-Moments-in-Sport do not generate the bulk of the total collectible value.

In the past 2+ years of pandemic times, collectible markets like sports memorbilia and trading card games have boomed. As these markets grew, so too did the instances of reported fraud. The biggest forms of fraud were phony autographs* and card "doctoring", or the illicit refurbishment of card wear & tear in order to increase its value. Authentication vendors like PSA (Professional Sports Authenticator) likewise experienced growth and diversified their services to include non-traditional (for PSA) collectible items like Pokemon cards.

*
From the FBI's Operation Bullpen (ca 1997-2002) report: "most industry experts concede that over half of the most sought-after athletes' and celebrities' autographed memorabilia is forged."

https://archives.fbi.gov/archives/news/stories/2005/july/operation-bullpen-overview


I'd wager that golf disc collecting experienced a similar surge in interest & growth, but I haven't been able to determine whether or not fraud has increased as well. So, I ask you, can you counterfeit a rare disc like a '15 Sexton Firebird or a McPro Aviar stamped Destroyer? Why or why not?



Postscript pic:

 

[Future_Primitive]

I guess it would be possible but not probable? Most the suspect disc offers are wiped stamps claiming to be from special run. Cant save I have ever seen somebody apply a new, faked stamp. Seems like it might be hard to do.

 

[ray1970]

More often than not, even if a stamp is wiped from a disc there will still be a "ghost" impression of the stamp from the heat when it was originally stamped. In the case mentioned above regarding the Sexton Firebird, unless someone managed to score some blanks from that run and were willing to shell out big money for a hot stamp machine and a reproduction die and could source the period correct foil for that stamp then making a forgery would be extremely difficult.

 

[DatRedDude]

i think the biggest difference is that most sports memorabilia is valued based on the signature, where as in frolf its the actual stamp itself and adding a autograph decreases value depending on the collector.

Disc golf is odd that people pay outrageous prices for a stamp.

I have a Brad Schick buzz from the same run of the initial mcbeth 4 claws. Same run different stamp and the cost difference is laughable. My BS buzz is more swirly than the 2 mcbeth 4 claws i have.

 

[ThrowBot]

Just thinking about it, it should be possible to produce a reasonable forgery of any collectible disc. BUT -- the cost of obtaining the equipment and developing the process would be prohibitive.

 

[reezyF]

When learning how to dye I couldnt think of anything cool and original so I printed the HUK trifly, traced it on a few discs and did a crappy impersonation that I was happy with. I never really though of it as counterfeit since I dint plan on selling.

Lately I have seen lots of posts about HUK dyed discs questioning their 'authenticity' and it always makes me chuckle. If it looks like a cool HUK stamp (that was actually well done) what does it matter if HUK actually dyed/stamped it.

Makes me wonder if someone has mastered the HUK forgery and is making a killing selling discs for 8$ more as some people seem to be convinced.

 

[robdeforge]

I think it would not at all be impossible to counterfeit the stamps themselves, although the fake "term innova" stamp incident from years back shows that it's not necessarily easy to do so

 

[flatflip]

Reproduction is possible but effort-prohibitive unless you can get your hands on the original die, which I assume is buried somewhere in innova's production facility.

 

[Skervoy]

Yeah seems it would be pretty hard and not to mention not so profitable. While 200 or even 2000 bucks is alot compared to the retail price it is far from an original mint pokemon card that go for 100k plus.

But if someone can make good cloudbreaker or fd3 copies including swirls and stamps....feel free to point me towards them lol

 

[Countchunkula]

My wife has a vinyl plotter and a small heat press. Of course that means that I tried to do my own hotstamp awhile back. My conclusion was that I could get decent results, but without a die shaped to match the stamp in question I could never make anything approaching the quality of a factory stamp.

I'll try to find the test disc and take a pic. Pretty sure it's still around here somewhere. Even if the stamp resembled a factory stamp (it didn't), the results wouldn't pass a quick inspection. I couldn't get the vinyl fully embedded in the disc without a custom die.

 

[ChrisWoj]

More often than not, even if a stamp is wiped from a disc there will still be a "ghost" impression of the stamp from the heat when it was originally stamped. In the case mentioned above regarding the Sexton Firebird, unless someone managed to score some blanks from that run and were willing to shell out big money for a hot stamp machine and a reproduction die and could source the period correct foil for that stamp then making a forgery would be extremely difficult.

Can a ghost impression be wiped with heat without damaging the disc?

 

[gammaxgoblin]

Just got sold a PFN star destroyer that was well wiped of flight numbers and a McBeth stamp...ill get refunded though...Im hoping the seller wasn't trying to do this and thought it was legit.

 

[txmxer]

i think the biggest difference is that most sports memorabilia is valued based on the signature, where as in frolf its the actual stamp itself and adding a autograph decreases value depending on the collector.

Disc golf is odd that people pay outrageous prices for a stamp.

I have a Brad Schick buzz from the same run of the initial mcbeth 4 claws. Same run different stamp and the cost difference is laughable. My BS buzz is more swirly than the 2 mcbeth 4 claws i have.

I don't understand the autograph thing depreciating the value of a collectible.

It's what people have decided, but I don't get it.

 

[smoothplayer]

I always wondered if the manufacturer would do this themselves or someone working there. They can simply hot stamp older stamps onto new discs assuming the molds are the same. You can't really re-hot stamp a disc without it having indentations from the previous stamp. The only way to do it would be directly during the first stamping.

 

[oddjob]

Paige did that with buzzes several years ago. Don't remember if she used the 10 yr or FR stamp but collectors were pissed at the time.

 

[elmexdela]

Just got sold a PFN star destroyer that was well wiped of flight numbers and a McBeth stamp...ill get refunded though...Im hoping the seller wasn't trying to do this and thought it was legit.

thats terrible

i was pissed af a while back when i got sold a "wasp" that was really some "first run super straight modified wasp" aka basic buzz from some idiot who assumed

just cuz it says wasp on the rim doesnt make it a wasp

that disc was eventually used as a clay pigeon on my buddies farm

 

[BionicRib]

thats terrible

i was pissed af a while back when i got sold a "wasp" that was really some "first run super straight modified wasp" aka basic buzz from some idiot who assumed

just cuz it says wasp on the rim doesnt make it a wasp

that disc was eventually used as a clay pigeon on my buddies farm

Pic or it didn't happen…

 

[ru4por]

thats terrible

i was pissed af a while back when i got sold a "wasp" that was really some "first run super straight modified wasp" aka basic buzz from some idiot who assumed

just cuz it says wasp on the rim doesnt make it a wasp

that disc was eventually used as a clay pigeon on my buddies farm

Wasp tooled Buzzz's are terrific discs.......so are Wasps.

 

[Hampstead]

thats terrible

i was pissed af a while back when i got sold a "wasp" that was really some "first run super straight modified wasp" aka basic buzz from some idiot who assumed

just cuz it says wasp on the rim doesnt make it a wasp

that disc was eventually used as a clay pigeon on my buddies farm

-chuckle-

 

[DatRedDude]

Wasp tooled Buzzz's are terrific discs.......so are Wasps.

Wasp tooled buzzes are also more expensive than a wasp, from what i have seen, could have parlayed that into a couple of wasps. That was no basic Buzz sir.