Club Financial Weakness

[jeffboi]

HI,
I have been an organizer of a number of sports and sport teams and in DG it strikes me that the clubs are the weak spot in support of DG. I think it's possible that one contributing factor is that the PDGA requirements in terms of players packs and pro payouts are keeping clubs weak as tournaments are not profitable. Clubs are going to be the ones who make new courses and it doesn't seem like they have the financial backing they need so I am thinking the sport overall is in a weak position long-term despite the short term rise of the sport.

Any thoughts?

Thanks,

Boi~~

 

[Cgkdisc]

C-tiers do allow pro payouts of 85% but I'm thinking pressure from the club pro members likely ends up with 100% or more payouts to pro divisions. There are other ways clubs can make money running events but I suspect that the various ways clubs appropriate money is all over the map based on their reason for forming.

 

[wolfmandragon]

Are the clubs going to be the ones to make new courses? I have seen no evidence of this. I have seen clubs go to city council and plead for courses being put in, citing low cost and shared use, but little in the way of finance.

What benefit does being a member of a club bring the common player? I don't need a club to go play with my friends.
I carry an arborist saw and do course clean up on my own, no need for a club there.
I know of no events that one has to be a club member to participate in other than bag tags, so very little draw there.
The social elite doesn't play disc golf, so no draw to be a club member there either.

I think clubs are weak in disc golf as they serve the common player very little. Make the club serve either a capitilist function or a social function, then you will see the clubs become stronger.

 

[elmexdela]

one could argue pdga makes the sport weak

 

[elmexdela]

also dg attracts a certain demographic of players

 

[GMcAtee]

This is the first year I'm not a club member in a while. With Huntsville's continuing dysfunction, I'd rather associate with just a few disc golfers and not be involved with a club.

In the past, I have volunteered for many club activities. My last club involvement was running a PDGA league to help rebuild the club's coffers after the previous president left the bank account empty.

So yes I agree, club's aren't offering much now-a-days but drama.

 

[jeffboi]

I see communities with inexpensive land growing the number of courses via government cooperation and I see anywhere that land is expensive there are no courses, or very few- and the government will not cooperate - so no new courses.

I also see courses being closed or converted to other activities when land gets expensive or as cities grow. And, clubs can't grow to have a large enough voice to push back or redevelop. I think this is concerning, and will eventually require a different model. But, that's why I posted to see what others think.

 

[DavidSauls]

It's all local. I've been part of a club that was financially solvent, made money running PDGA tournaments, and got things done---including cooperation with local government installing new courses. It's being strong and weak in waves, depending on leadership.

If the PDGA tournament structure is the problem, clubs can always run non-sanctioned events.

 

[jeffboi]

Do you think there is any truth to my land price theory. Land around Columbia is super cheap for the most part as is land around Spartanburg where I see tons of new and great courses. I don't see the same thing near the coast.

Charlotte has tons of great course on the periphery, but are new ones going in as the city grows ... I am not sure.

 

[GoobyPls]

I can say my local club has been run very well for years. They're in good shape financially, and they invest most of that back into local courses.

 

[DavidSauls]

Yes, some truth. I know it's been a problem for my Charleston friends.

But that's just one factor. Around Columbia there aren't many great parks of any kind. It's not land cost; it's government and its priorities. The county across the river from Columbia---Lexington---has no courses at all; it's a no-new-taxes, anti-government-spending county.

Sometimes it's just happenstance, where governments embrace disc golf (as they have in Spartanburg).

The Columbia club has run successful tournaments, and been able to pay for course upgrades. A club will never afford land, but if the opportunity arises and land made available, it could pay for baskets.

 

[wolfmandragon]

I see communities with inexpensive land growing the number of courses via government cooperation and I see anywhere that land is expensive there are no courses, or very few- and the government will not cooperate - so no new courses
...

I normally try to not speak of politics here, but this is political to the roots, so I do ask for pardon.

Government is force, not cooperation. Cooperation is when someone does something without coersion taking place.
I am not saying this to be pedantic, I am saying this as a problem must be defined correctly to find a solution.

There is only so much force a population will endure before it rebels, either with voting someone else in or with violence. 'City Council' always has to keep this metric in mind when allocating funds for a project. How much political capital will they gain by installing a DG park? How much will they lose?

So to get new DG parks, one must either convince 'City Council' that they can gain more political capital by installing a DG park than what they lose by the increase in force expended.... that or look for a different model to build the park.

Yes, I am aware that many times there is private or civic clubs helping with the funding, but that is a mixed model and force is central to this as well.

There are solutions to new parks outside of depending on the government.

One can look to true cooperation with private entities( e.g. Claytons has a very nice park open to the public for free), create member co-ops, or straight pay to play courses.

A co-op could also work with a service group ,like Kiwanis, where any profits are used as fund raisers for the services provided by said organization. This would both be a social win in the community and lower whatever taxes that might be levied on the land.

 

[jeffmonty]

I can say my local club has been run very well for years. They're in good shape financially, and they invest most of that back into local courses.

Same here. We have what many arguably consider the best club in the state of Washington.
http://www.wsdga.org/

I'm not sure we would even have a local course were it not for the club. We funded and continue to do all maintenance on all 5 of our local courses. The local gov't entity's (city and county parks depts.) participation ends with the permission to have the courses on the property. One course is on private property but is open to the public and free to play. Another is on a ball golf course, but the club paid for all baskets and concrete for the teepads. It's P2P, but no money goes to the club. Club members get one free day per month.

The club holds 6 or 7 sactioned and unsactioned tourneys/year that are really good fund-raisers for the club. Membership is $20/year for a single and we have 120 paid through next year and 270 members total. I think we also have around $11,000 in the bank now for some upcoming projects (another 18 baskets at the ball golf course, and a possible new 9 hole'r.)

Without the club, I'm not sure we would have anything at all here. PDGA? Who's that?

 

[jeffmonty]

To add to my post, I realize that our club is the exception to the average club. It takes a collection of good people that each have their own qualities to have a club that can get things done in an organized way. I'm sure many clubs struggle with getting anything done. Even a good club does at times.

 

[ru4por]

Clubs are more than sanctioned events. Around here clubs are running nearly all the leagues and they can be a solid source of revenue. Clubs do most of the clean up/maintenance, installation and funding of courses.

We have clubs that membership gets a decent return. A3, a local club offers a one disc challenge with a new Discraft release (sometimes), 20% off discs all year at a local brick and mortar, access to club exclusive leagues, exclusive raffle tickets to tournament offering, discount on PDGA membership, a shirt and swag, a chance to win some State Championship berths and usually a nice club evening with some apps and a couple drinks bought for members. We run several unsanctioned events along with a few sanctioned ones. We chose a course or two that need attention and try to have a couple work parties, have a great Veteran's charity tournament to give back to the community. More than one local course is sitting on our donated baskets.

Maybe a lot more could be made of the club structure, but I don't really see it as a weakness.

 

[biscoe]

I can say my local club has been run very well for years. They're in good shape financially, and they invest most of that back into local courses.

Same here. In my area the clubs are in general strong and active and serving the betterment of disc golf for everyone. This has really become the case over the last 10 years or so, prior to that there were a lot of isolated individuals doing most of the work on their own.

 

[DavidSauls]

It might be better to say that a club's financial weakness is more the result of the club's weakness, than PDGA tournament guidelines.

The PDGA tournament guidelines leave room for clubs to earn funds; moreover, sanctioned tournaments aren't the only way clubs raise money. Nor is raising money for the club the main purpose of tournaments.

There are memberships, sponsorships, non-sanctioned fundraiser tournaments, merchandise sales, local weekly events, and side revenue at tournaments (selling food, selling merchandise, raffles, etc.).

 

[DavidSauls]

…..and with that said, I wish the PDGA would loosen the guidelines and allow clubs (or individuals) to retain more of the entry fees, or run lower-entry, no-payout or players pack, events.

With no certainty that players would attend them. The players might forego the events that are more profitable for the promoters, and demonstrate that the problem is not the PDGA guidelines, but us. But I'd like to try.

 

[jeffboi]

I think what you are saying here folds into my price of land theory. It takes a great deal less force when there isn't competition for the land possibly.

I normally try to not speak of politics here, but this is political to the roots, so I do ask for pardon.

Government is force, not cooperation. Cooperation is when someone does something without coersion taking place.
I am not saying this to be pedantic, I am saying this as a problem must be defined correctly to find a solution.

There is only so much force a population will endure before it rebels, either with voting someone else in or with violence. 'City Council' always has to keep this metric in mind when allocating funds for a project. How much political capital will they gain by installing a DG park? How much will they lose?

So to get new DG parks, one must either convince 'City Council' that they can gain more political capital by installing a DG park than what they lose by the increase in force expended.... that or look for a different model to build the park.

Yes, I am aware that many times there is private or civic clubs helping with the funding, but that is a mixed model and force is central to this as well.

There are solutions to new parks outside of depending on the government.

One can look to true cooperation with private entities( e.g. Claytons has a very nice park open to the public for free), create member co-ops, or straight pay to play courses.

A co-op could also work with a service group ,like Kiwanis, where any profits are used as fund raisers for the services provided by said organization. This would both be a social win in the community and lower whatever taxes that might be levied on the land.

 

[Dcinmd]

In my experience club fund raisers are not PDGA sanctioned events and are marketed as raising funds for the club or a club project.