Course design frustration.

[Hampstead]

Wyngz and beer are an essential part of my disc golf experience.

 

[steinkecm]

Wyngz and beer are an essential part of my disc golf experience.

Messy.

 

[Anon]

Messy.

Dry. Rub.

 

[knettles]

Wyngz and beer are an essential part of my disc golf experience.

This statement really makes me sad because the bar we usually go to after our doubles just burned down. And they had really great wings (half off tuesdays!) and beer.

 

[dscmn]

This statement really makes me sad because the bar we usually go to after our doubles just burned down. And they had really great wings (half off tuesdays!) and beer.

You guys who are drinking beer and eating wings aren't helping to grow the sport. Next time, get some tin foil and wrap up the wings. Buy the beer to go. And then, wait around for future generations of players and give it to them. Selfish bastards.

 

[mashnut]

I don't think he's campaigning against drinking in his post. He's speaking specifically to the image of people drinking while playing (which is a whole can of worms unrelated to the OP's point). You're conflating two pretty distinct things when bringing up people consuming beer while watching a sport (NFL & NASCAR) to counter an argument about people consuming beer while participating in a sport.

You miss the point, super moderator.

Football and NASCAR are not looked down upon by society because their participants are drinking while participating.

I get that, but if you're in the "grow the sport" or "legitimize the sport" group then you have to accept that we need spectators. The biggest market for sports spectators is getting people to drink and party while watching your sport. If we want to get that crowd watching, we're going to have to be ok with having them on the course first.

 

[optidiscic]

to my knowledge nascar drivers and nfl players dont drink beers and litter the racetrack or field eith dmpty beers. Bad analogy super moderator. Its ok u are allowed to make mistakes.

 

[optidiscic]

As for the OP

The day beginners actually play the beginner tees and not the macho tees is the day you have an argument

 

[Improbably]

As for the OP

The day beginners actually play the beginner tees and not the macho tees is the day you have an argument

Yes.

I have often heard REC players whining, and yes it is whining, to have the baskets moved to the short positions so they don't have to play from the short tees.

 

[Anon]

As for the OP

The day beginners actually play the beginner tees and not the macho tees is the day you have an argument

BOOM.

This is why I (selfishly) enjoy having an Adv/Open style course on its own without any sort of Rec tees.

If the course in its only configuration is brutal... people that shouldn't be there tend to play it once and move on once frustration sets in and a few discs get lost.

It isn't so fun pounding beers and acting the fool when you can't stay in the tight fairways and spend a bunch of time looking for discs.

The people that should be there see it for what it is and raise their game to the challenge.

 

[Allurex]

LULZ... isn't Slippery Rock being developed for the 2015 PRO worlds final 9?

Just from quickly looking at the DGCR map for the Pittsburgh area... it looks like there are several 9 hole pitch n' putts.

So why is the OP bringing noobs out to a 'gold level' course with no rec tees for their FIRST TIME?

And how is that the course designer's fault?

These two posts sum it up for me. It's important to have different styles of courses in an area. If you've already got a couple of shorter, more beginner friendly courses nearby, what's the harm in designing a gold level course?

 

[Central Scrutinizer]

I like challenging courses. I also liked challenging courses when I was a terrible player.

I want to see harder courses. Long holes, lots of water, lots of OB, lots of obstacles. The only thing I do find un-fun is courses that are so tightly wooded that only the best players in the world can hope to reliably navigate them. But even those courses are good for practicing control.

If beginners don't like a challenge, then yes, they shouldn't play. there are plenty of short easy garbage courses around. We don't need any more of them.

QFT. I started playing at Oxbow in Goshen, IN in 1989. It was very difficult at first before they made it easier for when worlds came in 1996, and yet I still kept coming back. Just because I couldn't get a 3 on most holes didn't change the fact that most strokes were still meaningful. If I normally got a 5 or a 6 on a particularly tough hole then I still <i>played golf</i> on it and aimed for a 4 or a 5, even though I was a horrible beginner playing with just a Stingray and an Aviar.

 

[Countchunkula]

As someone who has taken numerous beginners out discing for their first time, I have a different take on the OP's problem: DON'T TAKE THE NOOBS TO THE COURSE RIGHT AWAY!

Go play catch, in an open field, with a soft putter for awhile until they have some control over the disc. It is way easier to get the hang of things this way than on the course.

 

[sidewinder22]

I have the opposite problem as the OP. I can't get most of my friends to play because they think all courses are easy pitch n putts and a joke compared to ball golf. One of them saw some of the World's coverage and was like wow, it's like real golf!

 

[dscmn]

A couple of quick points. One, do you design a course for an existing, actual player base or do you design it for a hypothetical group of players that you hope will suddenly appear out of the blue?

Two, the available land often dictates the type of course that is installed. And rightly so in my opinion.

 

[texhop58]

Too me it depends on the land and what's around. I was lucky enough to have the privilege to design a course in 2012 that opened in 2013. You would not imagine the amount of $£¥# I took over our design. The local "pros" were upset because it was short. The land We were given wasn't great. We installed 12 holes half of which may be considered a gimmick. But they were designed with a teaching mindset in hope of getting a bigger group of golfers. We still have our eye on a better parcel of land for a bigger course. But the local guys were mad because they wanted 500 and 600 foot holes. That area would of gave us maybe 6-7 holes if we did that. They would be very boring wide open holes. Instead we ended up with a fun little course that seems to have really caught fire. Our Facebook page has swelled to 275 from 75 or so in the past 12 months and there is almost always someone playing on it. Not so much with the 105 now but cooler days yes. . Anyways we designed the course for beginners and have also ran more rec style events like ace races and birdie bashes. The players really seemed to enjoy it. The link at the bottom of my signature is our course and as you see the 2-6 our routine but the 7-12 our holes players really seem to enjoy.

 

[Mr. Butlertron]

I don't think many people on here are going to sympathize with your (OP) issue. I disagree with your idea of planting beginner friendly 9 hole pitch-n-putts at the expense of tour quality type courses. Furthermore, I do declare your opinion on the matter is dangerous and outrageously stupid, respectfully. Playing the olde woman and children is pretty weak sauce too.

Putting in multiple tee pads is a descent enough alternative, but even that can be a course ruiner. Nothing sucks more than trying to play a course from long/pro tees when everyone else is throwing from short/advance, especially if the course is popular. No matter what, there's always overlap. This crap happens all the time at my hometown course.

In all likelihood, if disc golf exists in your area there are probably a lot more easy courses than hard courses. If a course is too tough and there isn't already an entry level course nearby, novice players should just make a safari course or practice in a field until they're ready.

 

[ihatepickles]

I'm a new player. I've been throwing for 2 months.

When a newbie starts if they play like garbage and have trouble even shooting triple bogeys they are not having fun and aren't going to play again.

I agree that not having fun will drive people away, but I disagree that everyone is turned off by throwing triples. I threw triples on the toughest course within 20 miles of me and I loved every minute of it.

Many courses are designed by advanced players. They design the courses for them alone. When your "Rec" tees are 650 ft around a hard right turn then through tunnel Forest, no new player will have fun

Again, I had fun as a complete noob but I agree tunnel shots were tough. I don't agree tunnel shots should be removed though. How about this instead of removing tunnel shots: cut the rough very short and make the 20 minutes of searching for a lost disc in thick undergrowth next to the tunnel go away.

I helped build the next course for worlds it's on a big college campus so there's potential for many new players. We made 3 tee pads. 1 for beginners.

Sounds cool.

I remember 1 specific hole was 500 up a super steep hill with a 10ft high barbed wire fence 30ft to the right. I said "isn't this a bad spot. New players are going to lose countless discs over that fence" they told me "well they shouldnt throw over the fence or they shouldn't play" that person designed 12 courses near me.

I think there's more to this part of the story than your idea being dismissed.

What girl is going to want to throw at a hole 600 ft when they throw 50ft. They will never come back. If there were easier courses or holes beginners would have more fun and come back.

I think your DG outreach falls apart with this kind of latent sexism. Don't design weak courses for weak girls. Strength and motivation are not the obstacles in the way of introducing women to DG. Women in DG, like all sports, are irritated at being treated differently.

When I first started there was a 9 hole really nice course. Some holes were 124 ft par 3 with 1 little tree in the way. I got addicted because it was fun.

I think there's a place for a well designed 9 hole course. If it's made 1 disc friendly for better players, even better. It's not overlaid on top of a par 70 world championship course though. Well, maybe it could be overlaid but I suspect it's better for both groups of players if it weren't.

New players barely throw 125ft. Do you think they have fun playing with intemediate players who take them playing when the intermediate players have to wait for the beginner to throw 4 times before they catch up to the intermediates first throw? No.

I love playing with better players. It makes me a better player.

OP, I think your perspective is skewed. I'm glad there's people working to build and promote new courses, but your worries aren't true in my case.

 

[DatRedDude]

I'm a new player. I've been throwing for 2 months.

I agree that not having fun will drive people away, but I disagree that everyone is turned off by throwing triples. I threw triples on the toughest course within 20 miles of me and I loved every minute of it.

Again, I had fun as a complete noob but I agree tunnel shots were tough. I don't agree tunnel shots should be removed though. How about this instead of removing tunnel shots: cut the rough very short and make the 20 minutes of searching for a lost disc in thick undergrowth next to the tunnel go away.

Sounds cool.

I think there's more to this part of the story than your idea being dismissed.

I think your DG outreach falls apart with this kind of latent sexism. Don't design weak courses for weak girls. Strength and motivation are not the obstacles in the way of introducing women to DG. Women in DG, like all sports, are irritated at being treated differently.

I think there's a place for a well designed 9 hole course. If it's made 1 disc friendly for better players, even better. It's not overlaid on top of a par 70 world championship course though. Well, maybe it could be overlaid but I suspect it's better for both groups of players if it weren't.

I love playing with better players. It makes me a better player.

OP, I think your perspective is skewed. I'm glad there's people working to build and promote new courses, but your worries aren't true in my case.

Well said sir. the only thing i disagree with is your name, i love pickles :hfive:

 

[Lachendr0]

The campus is taking the barb wire fence down.
There are green tees available.
Grove city pitch n putt is minutes away.
I don't see a problem.

You may disagree with JGary but he is the best and doesn't deserve that amount of anger.