Courtesy to female players in 2017 - Can it exist?

[Queen]

Hi Everyone !!

I've had several experiences about which I want to open a discussion.

As you may know, I'm a novice but I try to do my best and have fun.

I don't want to be an "angry woman," I just want civility. Common courtesy such as one male player would show to another. The majority of the time, I receive the courtesy or simply get ignored. Those, I can handle. Without getting too much into my personal backstory, I'm used to a certain amount of one or the other.

Today, I was playing a round at my home course on a really beautiful day (albeit a breezy one).
Of course the park was crowded with groups and families. (72 degrees and Sunny? Yes, please!)

As the only one playing a solo round with three discs and a towel, plenty let me play through or I dodged them, going to vacant holes and getting my bogeys and shuffling along, loving my time outdoors and laughing off my bad shots.

One of the fairways is perpendicular to the basket of one hole and the tee of another. I threw my first disc, hit a tree, took my second shot, hit a tree, tried again, hit a tree (what do you expect?).

I was barely even cognizant of the group near my fairway, other than to make sure I didn't hit any of them (yeah, like I can throw that far or that hard!) but still, courtesy is courtesy in a public park.

One of the adjacent party had been observing my unlucky lies and called out something to me about the trees and called me "sweetheart" and assured me I was "still a winner."

I froze and looked at him as he had pulled me completely out of my DG headspace...so he calls it all out to me AGAIN as if I'm deaf and not just SUPER annoyed. I have no idea how to handle the situation. I'm a "live and let live" (frolf and let frolf?) person that rather enjoys being ignored and left alone. We've all been interrupted in a round. You know how it goes.

Humiliated, I holed out as fast as I could and went on to the next tee but I was bleeding silent rage. I thought I might try to finish the round, but that just didn't happen. I peaced out and left so I could clear my mind and try to recover from a wholly unexpected interruption/affront.

A few weeks ago on another occasion, I was registering at the table at a disc event and one of the guys at the table muttered "sexy" but I heard him. Whether it was at me or just for whatever reason, that guy couldn't STFU, I felt like my entry fee was wasted because of what he said. And my performance was garbage that night, even though 99% of the other guys were respectful or ignored me. I want to attend again, but I feel like I would be "making waves" or disturbing the natural order should I return unaccompanied.

I'm equal to the other people. I'm not shopping for a boyfriend. I'm out playing disc to have fun and improve. To be outside, maybe even make a friend here or there. Basically the same reason as everyone else.

Why should my chromosomes have to make me some sort of target, mascot, or toy?

It's not right. For all the talk of "growing the sport" - being rude to women at events and on the course in not the way to do it.

If this is what is going to keep happening, then I am going to throw all my damn discs in the garbage. I don't deserve to be treated this way. No woman does.

Discussion Open !

 

[zenbot]

Are your DG experiences any different than what you face off of the course?

The point I'm getting at is if this is a problem exclusive to disc golf or is it a problem exclusive to men. I tend to think it is the latter.

 

[Anon]

You ran into 2 A-holes in a sea of people that didn't care you were a girl throwing discs in the park that day (or playing in that tournament)

Why are you letting 2 absolute idiots define your experience?

 

[Queen]

Are your DG experiences any different than what you face off of the course?

Fair point. I thought about that, too.

I'm getting better at deflecting the phone number offers and handling it diplomatically.

When they stare at me, I pretend like I'm invisible.

I got a "boring" car last year to curb being chased around the roads by guys as would happen in my (cool cool cool) former car.

I can't hermit out in the house all the time, as much as I like being a hermit.

 

[Hampstead]

When I was a young punk rocker wearing strange hair, all sorts of people called me all kinds of things. One guy even yelled out his car window and called me a biscuit head while I was waiting at a bus stop.

Point being, people can be dumb. Be you, do your thing. If you are confident with who you are, those words lose their power.

 

[Martin Dewgarita]

Oh to be by 20 year old internet dwelling self again... this would be a fun conversation to have..

 

[ru4por]

Really, your reaction is owned by you. There is nothing really that can be done about rude, disrespectful or inconsiderate people. I mean you could confront them, but generally they lack the consideration or respect to get it. Your reaction though is on you. If I get cut off in traffic and go into a rage, that is my fault. The jackwagon who cut me off is not at fault for my anger. I think Zenbot is on mark here. This is not a disc golf problem, probably less of an issue, really. Your ability to deal with adversity is a one of the inroads to becoming a better person. When encountering such nonsense......acknowledge and move along. Life is too short, sister.....oops, sorry.

 

[dwindacatcher]

Don't let a few people diminish your love for the game. DG as a whole is inclusive. More so than the rest of the world, in my experience. I've never seen a clean cut guy in his 50s help someone with a neck tattoo pick out a shirt, but I have seen that guy help someone with their grip. The best thing you can probably do is get more female friends to play with you. Easiest way to shut down those kind of guys is numbers. As sad as that is.

 

[loki the trickster]

I am sorry you stumbled across a few dense humans. I dont think you can blame the discgolf community or people that want grow the sport.

The grow the sport people (in any aspect) are small potatoes in the over all disc golf community. They are probably just as small of a group as the humans that you ran across but dont stand out as easily.


I bet that these guys or guy felt like puffing out their chests cause you were alone not that it makes it right.

Have you thought of possibly getting together a few friends to teach and have fun with with? It may not totaly prevent the stupid and ignorant comments (again you cant prevent people from being stupid) but it may make them quiet down or become far less noticeable.

I do think it is sad that it does happen. I do hope that you find a way to block the stupid people out and try to have the best time that you can.

 

[gdub58]

A couple of observations, with nothing but respect intended:

- The "still a winner" guy, in all likelihood, was trying to be friendly and encouraging. You didn't perceive it that way, and I certainly don't blame you. I also find there are few things more irritating then having a really bad hole or round and having someone tell me "you'll do better next time" or going out of their way to compliment me when I finally make a good throw. But, I also understand that's my issue and that the person is just trying to be supportive and doesn't want me to "throw all my damn discs in the garbage".
- The "sexy" guy, well, he's a nitwit who said something out loud that he should have kept inside his head. As you've said, you run into those kind of guys more often than you would like, and you probably run into more of them off the course than on. I believe most disc golfers are better than that, and your saying that 99% of the guys you encountered were respectful supports that. i'm curious though - you mentioned in both cases that many guys "simply ignore you" - does that bother you as well?

In any event, I hope you keep playing - it sounds like you really enjoy the game.

 

[cooter]

I'm not sure what your really after with responses here. Are you just stirring the pot? This is just life in general. Male or female. I know when I get in the car everyday I'm going to run into a few fools. Doesn't mean I flick everyone off that I pass. My path crosses mean women and rude men everyday. Grocery store, gas station, resteraunt, everywhere. It happens. Don't get consumed by it. My experience with disc golfers as a whole has been fantastic although it's not immune to the occasional idiot. But what is?

 

[Nova P]

It's simple math: membership in the PDGA is 92.6% male and 7.4% female. Membership in the human race is 50.4% male and 49.6% female. If skeevy dudes are distributed evenly through the population, then a woman is more likely to randomly bump into one in the context of disc golf than elsewhere.

So, mathematically speaking, it turns out that one way to reduce the frequency of "that guy" incidents is to bring the ratio of men and women closer to that of the general population.

Obvious downside: The frequency of "that gal" incidents will increase. =D

 

[air show]

The worst thing you can do is throw your discs in the garbage. All of us in one way or another came across this great game we call disc golf. It is great exercise and in my case very challenging. Some suggestions. Find an open field or park where you can find solitude and start winging discs. Playing alone can really exercise the mental part of the game. Alone is where i have made the greatest strides in my game. Then when you walk on to the course you will be more confident and have a different mind set. Also invest in some type of target or basket so you can stay entertained when your at home. It's all exercise. Moreover, find a pal to throw with. That means recruiting which is even more challenging than the game itself.

As far as all else goes "stupid is as stupid does."

 

[Tim_the_Enchanter]

Sad to say, I don't think your experience is unique. Let's face it, a lot of courses have guys whose entire life revolves around dg and that's where they spend the majority of their free time. When they see a woman golfing, especially by herself, it's like a unicorn to those guys and they go out of their way to try to impress her, or just do something skeezy. If a woman gets that kind of attention more than a few times, then chances are good that she'll decide that the hobby is not for her.

I definitely think if you can have a friend or two to golf with, that'll help immensely. Some friends of mine, who are a couple, went through a period where the guy was living in another state for a while. The girl still wanted to golf, of course, but had to put up with the usual ogling and overly friendly guys without her bf there. We ended up golfing a good amount together, and the unwanted attention dropped off a lot--there was nothing more than friendship between us but I got to be the honorary c**k blocker.

 

[roadtripstuff]

You should check out your local ladies league. I know there are tons of other ladies playing in your area and the difference between playing with women and men is astounding. Most of the folks in this sport are pretty good people, but of course there are going to be a few bad seeds, you just have to ignore those folks and do you. While I can't speak to the guy in line saying that crap, the other guy really prob thought he was being nice and encouraging, unfortunately many don't see that we would prefer to be spoken to the same way they would speak to a male player in regards that calling us sweetie or honey can be offensive.

Like others have said, you can't control how people act towards you, but you can choose how you react to them.

 

[Mulligan]

Sad to say, I don't think your experience is unique. Let's face it, a lot of courses have guys whose entire life revolves around dg and that's where they spend the majority of their free time. When they see a woman golfing, especially by herself, it's like a unicorn to those guys and they go out of their way to try to impress her, or just do something skeezy. If a woman gets that kind of attention more than a few times, then chances are good that she'll decide that the hobby is not for her.

I definitely think if you can have a friend or two to golf with, that'll help immensely. Some friends of mine, who are a couple, went through a period where the guy was living in another state for a while. The girl still wanted to golf, of course, but had to put up with the usual ogling and overly friendly guys without her bf there. We ended up golfing a good amount together, and the unwanted attention dropped off a lot--there was nothing more than friendship between us but I got to be the honorary c**k blocker.

Very on point observation that I will ditto in the first paragraph and solid advice in the second. Frolf on!

 

[BrotherDave]

One guy even yelled out his car window and called me a biscuit head while I was waiting at a bus stop.

That's one of the weirdest insults I've ever heard of. I can't even, I mean, were you wearing a pad of butter for a hat? I'm so perplexed.

You should check out your local ladies league. I know there are tons of other ladies playing in your area and the difference between playing with women and men is astounding. Most of the folks in this sport are pretty good people, but of course there are going to be a few bad seeds, you just have to ignore those folks and do you. While I can't speak to the guy in line saying that crap, the other guy really prob thought he was being nice and encouraging, unfortunately many don't see that we would prefer to be spoken to the same way they would speak to a male player in regards that calling us sweetie or honey can be offensive.

Like others have said, you can't control how people act towards you, but you can choose how you react to them.

That's good advice right there. Charlotte has to have a decent ladies scene, as big of a DG scene it is but I don't know for a fact.

If you were up in my neck of the woods you'd play a lot more solo rounds (as in you're the only soul out there) but the tourney bros would likely be as bad. As a guy I can't really relate or help you any but if you let the occasional socially backward rube keep you from playing disc golf then the terrorists will have won or something like that. The guy that called you 'sweetheart' may have just been brutally Southern, we call each other 'sweetheart' and 'honey' a lot around here. Just eat at a Waffle House often and you'll get used to it.

I'm out of bad advice, feel free to shoot me a PM if you're ever in need of a cock blocker in the Triad area. There's a lot of things that I am but an ogler and patronizer I ain't.

 

[mullethead326]

You ran into 2 A-holes in a sea of people that didn't care you were a girl throwing discs in the park that day (or playing in that tournament)

Why are you letting 2 absolute idiots define your experience?

Anon, I'm sorry that you're the one who gets singled out here, because there are other posters or readers who probably need this too. Trying to discount the original poster's experience, while perhaps intended in positive context, asks them to ignore an obvious but correctable problem with how they are treated.

http://skydmagazine.com/2016/09/gender-equity-ultimate-guide-young-gentleman/
http://skydmagazine.com/2015/02/unstacking-deck-can-use-privilege-help-people/

I think it's extremely important that male disc golfers acknowledge their privilege. We are currently in the majority of players. It's rare that we get catcalled or patronized because of our gender. This behavior (usually on the part of men) towards women isn't limited to disc golf, it's a systematic societal problem. Women have been fighting for equal treatment, rights, pay, and everything else for nearly forever. A huge part of our privilege is that, unless prompted, we never have to consider that others have to fight much harder to achieve the same treatment and respect. What is normal for male disc golfers is far from normal for female disc golfers. If a female asks for equal treatment, she is viewed in a negative light as "entitled" or "feminist".

On the disc golf course, the male privilege may be at its worst. We can be loud and brash because the scene is a de facto boys club. We can openly judge women because our clique of male players will join in. We feel capable of offering advice only because we may throw further than others. Loud and clear, I'm going to say that this behavior is unacceptable.

The next time you (as a male on or off the course) see or hear a female being disrespected, patronized, or otherwise not receiving a fair treatment, I urge you to take a breath and compose your thoughts, and then urge the other party to reconsider their behavior--would they like to be spoken to that way? Would they address everyone they know that way? Are they helping to grow a community of empowered and welcoming disc golfers?

It's not our job to protect female disc golfers... but as males we can use our privilege (and make other males aware of their own) to alter the paradigm and help encourage women to grow and play.

 

[Emoney]

I don't think there is a easy solution for this. It's hard for women to "win" in the real world let alone the disc golf world.
My best advice is to stay open to the fact that there are some good natured/mannered males in disc golf. It won't be the majority but there are a few.
Also, it actually helps to be a little more outgoing. Make some good friends and play with them. The group setting will help lessen the negetive attention you get exposed to. Keeping to yourself may get you even more unwanted attention unfortunately.

I really don't know if your issues will ever completely go away. That being said, make a choice that you can live with. Quit DG or find a way to enjoy it while not letting the stress of man ruin it.

 

[JoakimBL]

While the second guy was clearly out of line, as others have pointed out, it has little to do with disc golf and more to do with "some guys are dicks" in general. The first guy, was likely trying to be encouraging and friendly. I understand how that in general sometimes is perceived as patronizing, but to me has nothing to do with gender og sexism. I know a lot of feminist strongly disagree, but the world isn't going to be a better place, if we stop be friendly to each other. And I'm guessing that some women would find it encouraging. In any case, you are better off ignoring the first guy, than letting his remark get you wound up.

How to handle the second guy is a matter of choice. If you can't ignore it and let it go, stand up to him instead. I would suggest asking him to repeat what he said. He will likely be embarrassed, and have hopefully learned his lesson, if not you can deal however you feel appropriate, or how to best get it out of your system as not to affect your play.