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critique please...
- Thread starter pask2155
- Start date
JR
* Ace Member *
People take the easy way out so they leave the typing to me 
And i was abroad. I'm a bit busy now but get some shoes man You yank at full speed with the arm how about keeping looser in the beginning of the throw so that you could get the elbow forward and the slamming on the gas? See which way you throw farther and to be safe check out in between versions too. Your arm should follow through far behind your back. This is helped by stepping one step forward with the left leg after the disc has left and turning the thumb down quickly after the disc has ripped out.
And i was abroad. I'm a bit busy now but get some shoes man You yank at full speed with the arm how about keeping looser in the beginning of the throw so that you could get the elbow forward and the slamming on the gas? See which way you throw farther and to be safe check out in between versions too. Your arm should follow through far behind your back. This is helped by stepping one step forward with the left leg after the disc has left and turning the thumb down quickly after the disc has ripped out.JR
* Ace Member *
You should push harder with the left leg to shift to weight more forward. Upright stance at the rip is a good starting point. A few degrees forward may also be good to help with nose angles. Did the discs rise high slow down stall and fade hard? They looked like nose up throws with the arm being lower in the reach back than the rip point. It's easier to throw farther on a straight line if you maintain constant altitude with the disc. For high powered shots you should always take a step with the left leg after the disc has left. On second look i noticed that you don't turn the shoulders to the right of the hips which should also twist to the right of neutral. The shoulders should end up even farther right than the hips in the follow through.
ok so here's what I'm hearing...
1. Don't pull so hard in full reach back... I know I have tried to be loose like a noodle as I have read here... but I will try to do it even more... When I do that it seems as though my hips are turning in "front" of my shoulders... If that makes sense...lol... It's like my upper body is following my lower body... is that right???
2. Push harder with my left leg... so my body goes forward more and i'm not so upright...
3. YES my discs when I am throwing for distance tend to go up 30' or so... and they seem to stall out... If the wouldn't do this I think I could add 50' to the throw as they would come down nice and easy... So How do I correct this? Should I start with a higher reach back? Practice more snap? Or what?
4. Follow through with my arm and shoulders swinging all the way around (shoulders more than hips) and then take a step with my left leg...
Is this what you are getting at?
And thanks so much for the help... It's frustrating when you just keep doing the same thing and getting the same results over and over again...lol
1. Don't pull so hard in full reach back... I know I have tried to be loose like a noodle as I have read here... but I will try to do it even more... When I do that it seems as though my hips are turning in "front" of my shoulders... If that makes sense...lol... It's like my upper body is following my lower body... is that right???
2. Push harder with my left leg... so my body goes forward more and i'm not so upright...
3. YES my discs when I am throwing for distance tend to go up 30' or so... and they seem to stall out... If the wouldn't do this I think I could add 50' to the throw as they would come down nice and easy... So How do I correct this? Should I start with a higher reach back? Practice more snap? Or what?
4. Follow through with my arm and shoulders swinging all the way around (shoulders more than hips) and then take a step with my left leg...
Is this what you are getting at?
And thanks so much for the help... It's frustrating when you just keep doing the same thing and getting the same results over and over again...lol
ReDisculous
Eagle Member
Have you read the maxing out at 300' thread? even if you are breaking that distance there is some really good info in there. There's this diagram on page 12 (which appears earlier in the thread but on page 12 it gets quoted with more detailed comments) that really outlines the body positions.
http://www.discgolfreview.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=16139&start=165
Also check out Blakes new thread about disc pivot for a great diagram.
I thought they might be of use to you because it sounds like you might be missing the shoulder pause that lets you get your elbow out front (the shoulder spinner in Blakes new diagram).
http://www.discgolfreview.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=16139&start=165
Also check out Blakes new thread about disc pivot for a great diagram.
I thought they might be of use to you because it sounds like you might be missing the shoulder pause that lets you get your elbow out front (the shoulder spinner in Blakes new diagram).
ReDisculous
Eagle Member
pask2155 said:
From reachback to plant, yes. then you need to let everything get way out front, and then again near then end to bring your arm around and fling the disc.
You should be able to your hand near the vicinity of the "critical point" in Blakes new diagram
http://www.discgolfreview.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=24903&start=30
without having to open them much, if at all past where they are illustrated to be in that diagram, by moving to "planted" from reaching back.
cubeofsoup
Birdie Member
pask2155 said:
1. Yes, hips lead shoulders.
2. Yes
3. Check out the Grip Article and make sure you have good alignment and thumb forward position. Helps me get nose down. Also your weight is still too far back, see pic/video.
4. Check out the pic below for a comparison between you and Eric McCabe in your follow through. Notice his shoulders are past his hips and his weight is forward. Your arm/shoulder never gets past perpendicular to the target, you almost want to end up with your shoulders facing parallel to the target line (see E-Mac)
JR
* Ace Member *
1 & 2 yes.
3 Pushing faster and harder with the left leg and if it doesn't work slow down you should move to upright stance. Push the wrist down late in the throw. Sending the command around when the elbow starts to straighten is a good starting point for search of the optimum. The forearm muscles need to work hard to push well down and keep the wrist down until the rip. The higher you pull the harder it is to raise the disc even more. Too bad pulling high stiffens the arm muscles making the arm swing slower. Imagine that you pull the disc on top of a table to not let it drop and imagine that the arm grazes the table top all the way. You can practice in front of a large mirror to keep the disc at constant height. Stand stills at first.
4 the EMac comparison pictures and videos explain this very well.
Have fun in practicing!
3 Pushing faster and harder with the left leg and if it doesn't work slow down you should move to upright stance. Push the wrist down late in the throw. Sending the command around when the elbow starts to straighten is a good starting point for search of the optimum. The forearm muscles need to work hard to push well down and keep the wrist down until the rip. The higher you pull the harder it is to raise the disc even more. Too bad pulling high stiffens the arm muscles making the arm swing slower. Imagine that you pull the disc on top of a table to not let it drop and imagine that the arm grazes the table top all the way. You can practice in front of a large mirror to keep the disc at constant height. Stand stills at first.
4 the EMac comparison pictures and videos explain this very well.
Have fun in practicing!
Man this has helped so much. I am keeping my long drives straight and low to the ground now. I'm still sucking at follow through because when I do it I seem to get wild and my release point gets all crazy. But just the lesson of staying leaned forward and pushing off harder with my left foot has help like crazy!!!
Thanks guys and I'll try to post up another video with how I am throwing now with the adjustments!
Thanks guys and I'll try to post up another video with how I am throwing now with the adjustments!
JR
* Ace Member *
Following through means accelerating beyond the hit and that adds power but makes things happen faster so it's no wonder aiming is more difficult. You'll get more power if you lean back at the reach back and shift the weight to upright at the rip and follow through forward.
Hey guys it's a rainy day here so I set up a little way to drive in my basement to work on form... So I have been working on all you said... Check out this video and let me know what you think...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EHPkfh0IeZY&feature=youtube_gdata_player
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EHPkfh0IeZY&feature=youtube_gdata_player
hey JR - a quick question on Emac - he pivots well after his release and his hips and shoulders have passed; is this just a result of super flexibility or is this something to try and accomplish - ie. late pivot.
Sorry about the hijack there, so i will comment on your video - you're still not following through enough, better, but not enough. My wife does what you do but she is subconsciously stopping herself from freely following through because of a previous injury. Let that right arm fling around backwards. I tell my wife to try and reach forward on her line with her left arm, and that helps her with the shoulder rotation.
ps. good job with the footwear, now get a haircut :wink:
Sorry about the hijack there, so i will comment on your video - you're still not following through enough, better, but not enough. My wife does what you do but she is subconsciously stopping herself from freely following through because of a previous injury. Let that right arm fling around backwards. I tell my wife to try and reach forward on her line with her left arm, and that helps her with the shoulder rotation.
ps. good job with the footwear, now get a haircut :wink:
ljerome
Par Member
- Joined
- Jun 1, 2012
- Messages
- 137
You set it up in your basement. Can I just say how awesome that is! Now that is dedication and I am a fan!
Your improvement is great. Your form looks like mine 3 months ago. I can not help you like the experts help on this forum. I learned from reading all their posts. One thing recently that has almost got me to 400' is I now lead slightly with the disc out in front of me when I start my motion. I read on someone else's critque on here and one of the experts told him to try putting the disc out front a little, just as you start your motion like Dave Feldberg does. I went to videos of Feldy on youtube. I tried it and it has really helped my timing and follow through. Surely it will not work for all but it has helped me.
Good luck. Keep posting how you are doing as I will be reading!
Your improvement is great. Your form looks like mine 3 months ago. I can not help you like the experts help on this forum. I learned from reading all their posts. One thing recently that has almost got me to 400' is I now lead slightly with the disc out in front of me when I start my motion. I read on someone else's critque on here and one of the experts told him to try putting the disc out front a little, just as you start your motion like Dave Feldberg does. I went to videos of Feldy on youtube. I tried it and it has really helped my timing and follow through. Surely it will not work for all but it has helped me.
Good luck. Keep posting how you are doing as I will be reading!
keltik1
* Ace Member *
lean into the throw. your chin should be over your toes as the disc comes out of your hand.
read through maxing out at 300 thread. read all of it.
read through maxing out at 300 thread. read all of it.
- Joined
- Nov 2, 2008
- Messages
- 22,031
1. Slow down...way down, like to a walk or standstill or one step.
2. Keep your spine upright on reachback...you will never get your weight forward trying shift your weight so far back. Always keep your spine moving toward the target through the x-step.
3. Try using a Feldy pre-swing forward and backswing and work your body around the disc, helps balance and rhythm which are key to a good throw.
Check....
http://www.discgolfreview.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=24071
http://www.discgolfreview.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=24009
2. Keep your spine upright on reachback...you will never get your weight forward trying shift your weight so far back. Always keep your spine moving toward the target through the x-step.
3. Try using a Feldy pre-swing forward and backswing and work your body around the disc, helps balance and rhythm which are key to a good throw.
Check....
http://www.discgolfreview.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=24071
http://www.discgolfreview.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=24009
JR
* Ace Member *
Dusty5150 said:
Eric in this shot at least shows how lean and flexible he is. He doesn't get as much power from the body rotation as Will does. Will is another lean super flexible guy. Eric is not getting as much acceleration than is possible without the heel pivot and as much turning of the body speed as that gives Will. That late pivot of Will's plays right into Newton's force=mass times acceleration. Acceleration of that equation comes from pivoting as late as possible and getting the rest of the motions up to maximum ratio of exit speed of the disc and rate of acceleration of the disc. If you spin out early you upped the acceleration and speed early in the throw losing in the acceleration(=force) where it counts. Which is in the rip.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_rauvjnphLc&feature=fvwrel
Nice DGR can't link the vid of will directly to here. It is between the video of Eric and this line. You should check it for comparison.
Pask check out the angles of the left knee all throughout the throw and where you start to slide on the ground. The soles of the shoes aren't grippy enough on that surface at that speed. And you have difficulty pushing with the left leg to turn your body to the right. So better shoes or lower speed. You rip full on with the arm right from the start. Strong arming defined. Local bombers say that they do start full power throws by yanking at 100 % with the arm when the plant step lands. I couldn't get as far that way compared to a late acceleration throw two years ago. Last year i got almost as far after muscle power training. I haven't compared this year. Basically you are trying way too hard but it is great to know that you are able to exert a lot of power and guide your body movements at very high speeds. Now that potential needs to be harnessed to make the disc not the body move fast. That requires holding on to the full hit part in the diagram Blake drew and that is difficult and needs a lot of hand strength so going that fast that early increases the chances of your grip strength losing out that tug of war too early.
The plant step is at least 8" too long for that speed.
The running direction, step landing placements and the arm pull were almost text book mild hyzer (plant step a little too far to the left) but the arm followed through low so it would OAT flip the disc anny. If i saw correctly your right thumb points up in the follow through and it should point down. You need to step away from the wall to not hit it in the follow through. After that rotating the arm counter clockwise really fast right after the disc leaves pushes the shoulder blade farther away from the spine allowing the shoulder blade to move behind the back muscles farther lengthening the follow through of the arm. Which is too short, sapping power and most importantly stopping the arm movement abruptly shaking the
body possibly influencing the release of the disc. Flipping the disc.
There is more power available once you get the current power level smooth by reaching back even farther by pointing the heels and back at the target in the x step.
The heel pivots fine on that slippery surface but especially for off the tee shots you need to raise the ball of the foot more.
You have a small hip twist to the right of neutral adding power to the throw. Making a larger twist adds more power. The shoulders are locked in a weird place. To me it seems that you may be throwing with the shoulders locked left of neutral so that would indicate ripping with the shoulders in partially reach back position. Not the farthest point of reach back though. The shoulders should turn even more to the right of the hips.
The arm reached back lower than at the hit so the disc would have popped higher than optimal. That would have been rectified if you hadn't slipped and could have moved weight up of forward instead of leaning back. Seabas is actually wrong this time because at that running speed you can get weight forward from even a longer weight back stance at the reach back. It requires a very stiff left leg in the x step planting and afterward to lever you out of the long weight back position. In fact if you tensed up the left leg to immobile you'd fall over on your back or right side. At slower speeds even an immobile leg wouldn't allow you to shift the weight forward. A proper weight shift can't happen fully if the shoes slide on the ground. So slowing down is required on that surface. Those shoes may work well enough at that speed on a clean tee pad of concrete. Wet grass and you might fall on your butt with both feet high in the air.
You start the elbow chop a little too early. There are many inches more available elbow movement forward before you start to straighten the elbow. Just make sure you never ever push the elbow as close to the target as possible before straightening it out or you may be injured badly for life.
Ok so what should I work on first? And at this point I have JR saying more reachback and Sea is saying less...
But for me I say I should start with the 8" less on the plant step. That will get my foot under me more and should help with other things as well. Also in the x step my left heel and hip more away from the target. And then work on my follow through... These seem manageable without being overwhelmed...
Is this where I should start? Or somewhere else? Obviously all this needs fixed but if I correct to much it can be overwhelming.
But for me I say I should start with the 8" less on the plant step. That will get my foot under me more and should help with other things as well. Also in the x step my left heel and hip more away from the target. And then work on my follow through... These seem manageable without being overwhelmed...
Is this where I should start? Or somewhere else? Obviously all this needs fixed but if I correct to much it can be overwhelming.
JR
* Ace Member *
A shorter reach back is great for now for ironing out other form issues. I meant that once those are sorted there is more power to be had from a longer reach back but i agree in that you should wait for now and not reach back any farther.
The number one thing now is to learn to throw loosely and relaxed so you should try out what later arm acceleration changes. Chances are that at first you'll throw shorter but eventually you'll throw as far with less effort and more control and after that farther.
That 8" is a starting point and it could be even less. Going too short with the plant step comes when the hip joint locks up or you'll get stuck foot that hinders pivot and trips you forward. The speed and plant step length is a continuum where one changes with the other so you need to test out different combinations. I'd work on one of those issues you mentioned at a time and improve each of them. I have no other preference than to throw smoothly and shortening the plant step at first. At this time the turning of both heels toward the target should come last. That goes with reaching back farther. Before you try those you should be well timed and nearly perfectly balanced with the current reach back length.
The number one thing now is to learn to throw loosely and relaxed so you should try out what later arm acceleration changes. Chances are that at first you'll throw shorter but eventually you'll throw as far with less effort and more control and after that farther.
That 8" is a starting point and it could be even less. Going too short with the plant step comes when the hip joint locks up or you'll get stuck foot that hinders pivot and trips you forward. The speed and plant step length is a continuum where one changes with the other so you need to test out different combinations. I'd work on one of those issues you mentioned at a time and improve each of them. I have no other preference than to throw smoothly and shortening the plant step at first. At this time the turning of both heels toward the target should come last. That goes with reaching back farther. Before you try those you should be well timed and nearly perfectly balanced with the current reach back length.
