Dead Right but Long

[BigDaveC]

I have been doing the hammer drills and standing right pec drill a lot lately and it is helping (RHBH). I still am working on trying to get my roc out to 300 feet from a stand still right pec position as was recommended to me here as an indication of pretty good snap.

The other day while I was practicing my whole throwing motion trying to get the feel of my practice work into that, I did something I've done before many times. I did one of those dead right and long throws. Since I have been working on the late release, extension and snap I got to thinking, maybe that is really how a good snap should feel. So I kept doing it, lining up left intentionally and throwing back to the right. I was throwing my cheetah 30' farther with that alignment adjustment and they were still nice and straight.

I always thought when I did that dead right long throw it was grip lock and that was bad. Am I asking for trouble if I keep lining up this way and throwing back to the right? Or am I just feeling the correct late release and extension and really would have needed to adjust my alignment anyway? Thanks

 

[riverara]

I was thinking the same thing the other night as well. Im interested in hearing some comments.

 

[BigDaveC]

Then my next question is going to be, why not try to do it? We all do that throw pretty early on when first starting (and keep doing it occasionally), why not just try to keep doing that and adjust your alignment? I did a few of those like the first week I was playing but since they went in the woods that feeling kind of self "correctde" itself. But even as little as I knew then, not that I know anything now, I knew it felt fast, strong and long.

 

[garublador]

Is it a 45 degree adjustment or a lot smaller one? If it's smaller and you have control and aren't doing anything really wrong (starting your pull before your plant step, pulling out wide away from your body) then it might just be a correction you have to make.

When you do throw, do you make eye contact with your target before you release? If so, the disc should go right where you were looking. If you aren't, start doing it.

 

[TWO CROWS]

I did this by accident the other day with a Z stalker at my practice field. It ended up going over a fence and into a ditch waaaay off to the right. I thought the same thing about how it felt like really good snap that late. I went home and google earthed it at a little over 500 feet!!!

 

[cfair]

Normally garu I agree with you but I'm think they're thinking something I use to think...

The idea is that "if griplock goes farther, why not griplock on purpose and just adjust my body to throw in that direction". The reason is this. Griplock does go farther because it forces a moment of better snap and technique with improper timing. Because our timing is off grip lock is the correct idea applied the wrong way.

With the hammer pound you're looking the grip tightly at the last second and grip lock holds the disc till the last possible second AFTER you've missed the first hit (power zone/elbow smash or stop, whichever) and then hit the snap at the wrong time.

What you'll want to learn here is not to grip lock on purpose and try to aim differently but, the goal now is to learn to control when the grip lock happens to provide the snap to your power zone (often learned through the right pec drill). So don't rely on grip lock. But learn to grip so that the disc rips out of your hand at the appropriate moment (kind of like grip locking earlier... but not.)

And I want to be sure to explain that there are two grip locks. There is the grip lock that results from incorrect timing (a bomb to the right) and grip lock that occurs to produce snap. In Dave Dunapiece's recent video he explains the importance of a tight grip and in the hammer pound we try to grip tight at the last possible second. This is locking your grip in. So grip lock and locking the grip (tightening it) are two different ideas with a similar mechanic result in creating snap.

 

[BigDaveC]

I see what you are saying cfair and agree. I'm actually think Garu might have been indicating a similar thought, in that if the grip lock causes >45 degress to the right then that is indeed the second hit and should not be encouraged. I think I need to move the "grip lock" earlier in the timing sequence I guess is what I am hearing.

I am actually thinking about attacking it from both directions:

Adjusting alignment - trying to keep my plant foot turned slightly more counter clockwise, which should keep the right shouldler slightly more closed to the target which to me it seems like would adjust my alignment a little bit, which was probably going to have to be adjusted a little bit anyway once I started getting some snap.

Adjusting timing - then also working on the proper timing of the tight grip to get that to coincide with the 1st "real" snap in the stroke.

Oh and to answer garubladors question, the grip lock ones seem to go between 20-30 degrees right.

Anyway, to me it would have been helpful I think early on to have known that this "grip Lock" feeling is actually desirable in a sense. Thanks.

 

[cfair]

thanks for clarifying what garu was saying. Makes a lot more sense now.

 

[BigDaveC]

I wasn't trying to step in and speak for him, from the things I've seen him post he seems to have a great understanding of technique. He also does a great job of explaining it, he doesn't need a hack like me adding on to his comments ;-)

Once I read what you said though cfair, it kind of went together with his comment, at least in my way of thinking about it. Thanks for your explanation.

 

[wolito]

I think it is a timing issue as well. I had always been lining up with the shoulders turned slightly away from my actual target and my drivew just would come out straight. Now I line up with the target more before hand and as a result I am releasing the disc at the right time and my drives have been straight and long. Concentrate a little more on timing of release in regards to your body and shoulder position with the target.

 

[The Hammer]

I think once you realize that distance is nothing without accuracy, the answer is obvious. But maybe that is just me.

 

[adamhaas]

When you do throw, do you make eye contact with your target before you release? If so, the disc should go right where you were looking. If you aren't, start doing it.[/QUOTE]

Can you elaborate on this? I have never thought about this...

Nice thread!

 

[garublador]

Can you elaborate on this? I have never thought about this...

Nice thread!

Do you make eye contact with your intended initial trajectory as soon as possible? As in are you making that contact at least by the time your shoulders are parallel to your intended line and then keeping that contact though the entire rest of the throw? It's not something most people do but it helps a lot when it comes to being able to focus your power correctly and hitting your intended line.

 

[sbinwien]

Do you make eye contact with your intended initial trajectory as soon as possible?

Two of the big guns at a tournament suggested keeping your head in line with your shoulders, so not necessarily locking onto the target. They both thought that keeping your head in place robbed you of power from your core and legs.

This was the first time I heard this advice and then it was twice in the same day.

So, are you suggesting locking the eyes and head, or just the eyes?

 

[cfair]

This is something that can be confusing now because of terms/verbage and all the things that happen at this point of the throw.

So there is keeping eye contact (moving the eyes), keeping the head in line (moving you're head to look). I'll do the best I can to explain this because its not something thoroughly explained by many.

1) You start out looking at your target probably facing it.
2) You begin your steps and keep eye contact/somewhat facing the target.
3) You reach back to load your throw. At this point you break eye contact because your head is not in position to allow your eyes to look at it peripherally.
4) Your body twists in the chaos that is the throw and as your head turns your eyes can look at the target again.
5) Your follow through allows you to face the target again and your eyes follow the disc in flight.

I use to just do my throw in a way that I could throw with my eyes closed. I never looked, never aimed, and hardly watched my flight. But keeping eye contact as much as possible allows your muscles to tighten more because if you don't you can end up reaching to far back for your reach back. I didn't think looking mattered that much and I just trusted my throw but at some point it helps to learn to look before you throw.

 

[dodgeball]

Regarding keeping your eyes on target during the throw

From a purely technical/mechanical perspective, I think it's just a more natural position to keep your head in a neutral, looking straight ahead position, than craned to the left or right on the target. Also, it allows for a greater range of motion when u have your head in a looking straight ahead position. Think of ball golfers who keep their head down and neutral during their shot. During practice shots I'v experimented with not watching the shot and had some good results. The obvious drawbacks r that u can't watch the disc as it leaves your hand (and it's initial flightpath) and when on the course u need to watch that drive as closely as possible to keep from losing it!