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Designing Your First Course: Mistakes Made and Lessons Learned

Thanks for the return to actual firstt time course design. This was a great and useful thread until the last 24 hours.

Great advice to oversee the actual installation, and not leave it to the parks dept. employees.
 
That's my fault and I apologize.

I was actually thinking of someone else's post....

And the subsequent responses, entertaining in their own right, but not exactly instructive to anyone contemplating their first course design and desiring to benefit from the experience of others' mistakes.

Undoubtedly, experienced designers can offer great advice. And those who haven't designed and built a course still have insights as to what works, or doesn't. But there's something about those first-time mistakes and lessons learned that the experienced designers may have forgotten, and the others have never thought of, that's worth passing on.
 
Bump: Why isn't this thread stickied???

This thread contains so many design tips, and sage wisdom about what to do (or not to do), from people who've been there and done that. The good, the bad, and the ugly of course design.

This is the kind of thread a potential designer should have to make a conscious effort to avoid...rather wading through years of threads to find.
 
Lol, I forgot about this exchange. Let me explain stuff about Buzz in case anybody thinks I was being unfairly critical/mean. First off, I literally know Buzz IRL and argue with him about 3-4 times a week and there's nothing I've typed on this forum that I haven't told him to his face. To his credit he's a big boy with thick skin and takes our verbal jousting in stride. I'll also add to his credit that if parks & rec. let him redesign Springwood without interference it would be a lot better. A great course? No but less all over the place and much better for casual players.

The moral of the Springwood story is basically don't design a course for a skill level of player that you can't fathom. Buzz doesn't follow professional disc golf nor know the rules. He doesn't play gold level courses. He can't/won't throw a putter or mid off the tee so he hates wooded courses b/c his Force kicks deep into the woods on every hole. He doesn't believe in scoring separation. He detests water or OB anywhere near greens. He thinks greens shouldn't be designed to be harder so he's against obstacles in the circle, baskets on slopes, etc (considers it "artsy fartsy design"). He thought a 1000' open hole with soccer fields and a neighborhood flanking a 50' wide fairway was appropriate b/c David Wiggins, Jr. (a 1% distance thrower) played it okay without going OB. He says there's no such thing as "filler holes" and has no issue with par 2's. He doesn't think two adjacent skill levels (Red/white, white/blue, etc) should ever share tees. He has a fixation on arbitrary numbers (777', course par shouldn't be a prime number, a course shouldn't have more than 18 holes unless it's a # divisible by 3). Trees are okay to cut down as long as they aren't evergreens. Especially trees that don't grow perfectly vertical, those are "retarded." His test for seeing if a tree is alive is to try and pull/push it down. In short, his idea of disc golf is way, way off the wavelength of everybody else's idea of disc golf.

Cautionary tales, my friends. People assume that disc golfers are of hive mind b/c it's a small world but like anything else there are folks with, ahem, unorthodox notions about things so if you're designing a course it's important to be wary of the old "a camel: a horse designed by committee" phenomenon.
 
One thing I can tell you is do not slap a hole in unless the people that want the course are forcing that issue. We were forced to do that with one hole because the City Park people in that Park were adamant about having a 18 hole course. Also a whole hotel and small convention center was so against us putting a basket within 30 feet of the fence for the hotel parking that we could not have a hole on the fence line like we had planned as the first spot to squish in a hole that would have been better then just a straight 225 foot hole that is easy to get a 2 on a par 3. The original spot would have hugged the fence more for the hole. Also do not be surprised that the course you designed has holes lost in a city park over time due to changes to the park.
 
Don't be stubborn.

I had a hole on my private course that was beautiful. About 320' across a ravine that was 50' down then 60' up. A little on the heavier wooded side, but not truly heavily wooded. Nice landing zone halfway up the far side of the ravine.

When executed properly, it felt really good.

Problem was, the ravine sloped sharply from left to right, and RHBH shots would too often kick off and down or just hyzer out. I spent hours looking for/retrieving discs down in some severe terrain. Not safe at all and very tiring.

Finally talked myself into giving up on the hole.

Lesson learned.
 
Lol, I forgot about this exchange. Let me explain ...

I understand. It was clear there was a lot of history there, and the Buzz comments were some of the few designer comments that seemed less insightful (or maybe just overly stubborn?) to me.

Regardless, this thread has a bunch of great stuff and could only help a new designer. I wish more designers would ask questions that are answered in this thread, rather than embark on simple or ambitious course design projects without learning from the folks who have done it before. Is there any problem stickying it? Is that a timg thing? 3P?
 
Bump: Why isn't this thread stickied???

This thread contains so many design tips, and sage wisdom about what to do (or not to do), from people who've been there and done that. The good, the bad, and the ugly of course design.

This is the kind of thread a potential designer should have to make a conscious effort to avoid...rather wading through years of threads to find.

I don't know about stickied, but lots of times I've wished I'd saved a link to it, when I wanted to refer someone to it.

Almost 100 posts back, I made the following suggestion:

When this thread winds down, someone please edit it and post it as a reference somewhere.

There are plenty of sources for hole design philosophy, many of which I read before we embarked on building a course, but not a lot on these nuts and bolts.
 
Many, many, great points made in post. Pardon some redundancy..

  • Wait on cement until sure where tees should be
  • Design in winter
  • Wooded holes over time will become more open and vise vera for open holes
  • Players will make a shorter route if given the chance no matter where the fairway is
  • Plan for safety when designing including reviewing design with property owner
  • Be respectful of existing park activities when creating course so if others later intrude on your turf you are not a hypocrite
  • When designing write down a description of each hole. Be sure description isn't always or often the same
[/LIST]

Another one I will add is do not be supersized if the course you made has holes get lost years later due to park development that can't be put elsewhere due to limits of place used to make course and other uses in the course.
 
When you are designing a course please don't forget to look up. People like me throw over stuff a lot instead of throwing thru small gaps. I'm not complaining because it gives me a decent advantage. Try to make sure and tuck some teepads under trees or place them in a spot that takes away the over the top shots if you don't want people throwing them. It's a common complaint I've heard after someone plays a round with me.
 
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Monroe community park is a good example of what I'm talking about if you look at the pictures on here and specifically holes 3,5,8,11,14,and 24. I'm not talking bad about the course love the course it's one of my all-time favorites.
 
My sons and i have a 9 hole course on my property 80 acres which 60 acres are wooded! So called it woodland greens.
From my experience of designing the course. First off we carried a homeade basket which i named toothless because it had only one chain dangling. But it was light enough to carry. Threw lines we thought would be decent and made the first nine. But the big mistake was we put the fairways in open grassy areas big par 4-5. The time mowing everything was over whelming. So made anothe shorter just checking things out 9. Had so good shots but some tweeners that just didnt work...untill i looked at the over head view and changed direction of some holes. Thats when things came together. We have our front nine set with red and blue pads. Dirt pads but everything takes time. Dont think your going to go out first time and make a course that flows properly and is set in stone. Trials will come brush will be moved but it will come around.
 
Another one I will add is do not be supersized if the course you made has holes get lost years later due to park development that can't be put elsewhere due to limits of place used to make course and other uses in the course.

By this I mean a multi use park you made the course in and something ends up in the course and you lose some holes that have nowhere left to fit as you put all the others where they could fit and are out of space to fit new holes and would be in the way of other structures and facilities.
 
I bought a 25 acre piece of property that was so thick with vegetation that we couldn't even walk through most of it before committing to buy it. We knew it had some great oak trees on it though and some nice elevation changes, so we bought it on a leap of faith, hoping that we could put a couple of courses on it, as well as all of the infrastructure needed. If your property is like this, here's what worked for us.

- Start big and work down to the details. Where will the electrical lines go? Septic lines? Where will the parking lot be? Where will the access roads and utility trails be located? Where will the pro shop and bathrooms go? What will be the boundaries for the courses? Make sure the big things are decided on before starting to design the courses.
- Google Earth (GE) was our main design tool. You can easily add graphic elements (lines, boxes, text, etc) on top of the map and then change them easily as your design changes. GE keeps a history of all of the photos taken of a property. By reviewing these at different times of the year, we were able to find the locations of our big oak trees. We didn't have a topographical map for our property, so we used the elevation profile in Google Earth to get a pretty good idea of the topography.
- Find the things you want to design around and add them to your GE map. The main features on our property were the oaks and elevation changes, so we made field trips, hacking through the dense vegetation to locate them. The GPS coordinates of these and any other useful design features were noted and then added to our GE map.
- Before starting the design, decide on your main design requirements. In our case, we wanted to (1) include as many of the oak trees as possible in key spots like the tee pads, greens and fairways where they can shape shots, (2) take advantage of the elevation changes to get a good variety of uphill, downhill, cross valley and flat holes, (3) have two nine hole loops, one clockwise and one counter clockwise, (4) try for a variety of dogleg left, dogleg right, and straight holes, and (5) include at least 3 par 4 holes in the design.
- Using the features noted on the map and your design requirements, create some high level designs for the course. Start by adding 18 lines to your map to represent the fairways. Tee pad and basket locations, hole lengths, elevation change for each hole, etc can be added to the map later as the design progresses. When you get a course design you kinda like, save it and make another one and another one and another one. I must have made 50 or 60 versions before finally settling on one. This took some time to do, but I was lucky in that we had already decided on the location of hole 1, so most of the high level design work took place while we were also clearing hole 1.
- Get out your chainsaw and start clearing the holes. With the overall design finalized, you can start on any hole. This takes a leap of faith though, because at this point we knew the general boundaries of each hole, but still needed to find its "identity", look for something that makes it unique, while incorporating any design features already noted on the map. We started cautiously, only cutting saplings and bushes that we knew wouldn't be needed. At some point, enough was cleared that we could walk the fairway and start thinking about how to clear and prune the remaining trees to make challenging and interesting flight paths, greens, and tee locations.

A couple of random things we learned while clearing:

- Save as much as you can. We ended up with several thousand cedar poles and a dozen oak trees killed by the oak wilt fungus. We're using the cedar poles to make fences and arbors. The oak trees are being used to make some unique and inexpensive benches.
- We tried to handle the debris and the thousands (millions?) of rocks that covered our fairways as efficiently as possible. Instead of hauling the rocks off, we used them to line the fairways and make bunkers in some strategic locations. We tried a variety of things for disposing of the debris, but the method we used the most was to just drag the debris into piles in the middle of each fairway where it could be burned. It took about a year for grass to grow back where the burn piles used to be.
 
I'm impressed that you could layout 18 holes before starting work, particularly on a densely wooded property.

It's one of the things that, with professional course designers, I always marvel at. My brother and I bought land to build a course, and we couldn't. Nor did we have the restraint to not start building holes so we could throw them.

A few days after we closed, we started on hole 1. We then built others, 1 or 2 at a time, not all of them in sequence, but always keeping future routing in the back of our mind. After we'd built about 7, we came up with a routing scheme that involved areas where future holes might go, even if they weren't actually designed.

We used pen & paper, not Google Earth, and recently I came upon a bunch of planning maps from 2005-2006. It was quite interesting to see what eventually made the grade; what took 10 years; what ideas were abandoned and forgotten; and what we missed, that is now part of the course.
 
A few days after we closed, we started on hole 1. We then built others, 1 or 2 at a time, not all of them in sequence, but always keeping future routing in the back of our mind.

I am envious. I would much rather have designed with your process than mine. Designing and building a few holes at a time would have been more fun and with more time available could have resulted in a better design.

Unfortunately we only had 18 acres available for 18 holes. Designing a few holes at a time could have put us in a box by the time we got to the end. Designing the whole course at once wasn't too bad though. How many different designs can there actually be that meet all of the design requirements? In our case, it wasn't that many and I'm confidant we picked the best one we could come up with at the time. Every once in a while though I'll catch a glimpse of a possible hole that would have been amazing but didn't make the cut because it didn't play well with the other holes on the course. Oh well, I guess that's what safari layouts are for.
 
We have a lot of luxuries---extra land, and time.

We haven't been afraid to abandon holes we'd built, or started building; or to change some over the years.

And we don't have much traffic. So those "other holes" that didn't fit? Eventually we built a second, overlapping layout, including at least one stretch of fairway that plays both ways, in different layouts.

I helped with a 9-hole course on school grounds, where it all had to be done at once. But it was also pretty open, and simple. Still, I admire those who can do it all at once, and do it well.
 
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