Destination Courses - Do You Go For The Course Layout or The Scenery/Surroundings?

[Treeplant]

We've done a bit of travel over the past couple of years to hit "the best courses" in the areas we've traveled to. A couple of weeks ago we traveled to Texas specifically to play Selah Ranch, which we've heard people refer to as one of the best courses in America, if not the world.

Yes, the course was really nice, but that's all it was - really nice. It wasn't spectacular, breathtaking, especially memorable etc. The island basket hole was great for sure, and it was a really nice layout around the ranch, but I was pretty underwhelmed that that's considered one of the best courses in the world.

Since that trip we've realized two things:

A) The quality of the "best" disc golf courses we've seen compare in terms of professionalism and overall investment to a medium level ball golf course. I've traveled to play some of the best (public) ball golf courses and the quality of the best ball golf courses leaves the best disc golf courses a hundred miles in the dust. And I'm not talking about the stupid "luxury" **** like caddies and multi-million dollar clubhouses and valet-everything and $18 martinis from the cart-girls, I'm talking about beautifully manicured courses where every detail is thought out to the most minute detail, from scorecards to tee boxes to how precisely the rough is trimmed etc. That top level of maintenance and investment that exists in ball golf simply does not exist in disc golf. (Although if it does, I'd love to hear about where.)

B) A lot of the top courses are rated more on how the course plays itself than how scenic/beautiful the course surroundings are. This makes sense for advanced/pro guys, but for rec/intermediate people who just want a bit of challenge coupled with a great experience
I wish there was a way to rate courses based upon "Is this course worth travelling to play because it's such an awesome area to be?" For example, we did a Cali trip last year where we played De Laveaga, which is supposedly a world class course. It was really nice in a lot of ways, for sure, but we enjoyed Whale Rock about 50 times more than it (even though it's about the same rating on this site) because it's such a unique setting. A wooded course is a wooded course, we've played dozens of them, and yes it's nice to play a wooded course with really good lines and good tee pads and signage etc., but I'm not going to travel half way around the continent for good lines in a forest and nice tee pads. We actually much preferred the San Fran city park course to De Laveaga simply for the fact that it was in San Francisco, which we loved as a city. I'll happily travel to play somewhere with stunning mountain views (Canmore Nordic in Alberta), laid out in an active winery (Whale Rock), or a crazy tonal course in the badlands with tons of elevation, but after the disappointment of Selah we are completely changing the criteria we use to evaluate which courses we want to travel to and play.

Anyway, this is all personal preference. I'm not trying to slag on Selah, it really is a very very nice course, but it made us realize that the criteria that serious disc golfers use to evaluate courses isn't the same as what we use.

Just curious how others feel about the distinction, and for people who feel like we do, what courses they found especially worthwhile to travel to play?

 

[lines]

Tl:dr... Layout.

 

[PMantle]

We were massively underwhelmed, both by the course itself and by the inhospitable, sullen welcome we received from the guy who opened up the pro shop for us (it was cold and he clearly didn't like the fact that anyone had come out to play and he had to drive out and open up the course).

Yes, the course was really nice, but that's all it was - really nice. It wasn't spectacular, breathtaking, especially memorable etc. The island basket hole was great for sure, and it was a really nice layout around the ranch, but I was pretty underwhelmed that that's considered one of the best courses in the world.

Please post this in the Selah thread in the courses folder if you haven't already lol

 

[thrembo]

Ball golf started in 1457 or earlier, so they have a little head start on us. Disc golf lends itself to a little more rustic experience in general. There are signs that more country club type courses are coming. Check out the wonderful new Hobbs Farm course in GA for example. https://www.dgcoursereview.com/course.php?id=8334 I really liked this course and traveled from South Fl to play it but we also played the rustic mountain course Georgia Canopy Tours, and really liked that one too. I would agree that some top courses may be slightly overrated but there are some that live up to the hype.

 

[DiscGolfCraig]

Scrap the site and start over. Somebody has different preferences. Is independent thought allowed here?

 

[thrembo]

Scrap the site and start over. Somebody has different preferences.

I think it might be a different perspective. I could see someone coming from ball golf not quite getting disc golf and believing that our courses are not as nice as ball golf courses in general. The proper medication can help ease the transition. And I am a Grandmaster Rec level player, so I choose scenic beauty over course layout, but having both is nice.

 

[dreadlock86]

i don't think we'll ever see the level of maintenance of ball golf courses on disc golf courses.


i'd say layout is more important to me but i can't lie, the visual pleasure and relaxed feeling of a beautiful setting is a factor that has an almost subconscious effect that i often underestimate. that said, there definitely has to be a minimum level of interest and challenge in a design, no matter how stunning the scenery is, for me to think about it and say "that's a great course".

 

[thrembo]

i don't think we'll ever see the level of maintenance of ball golf courses on disc golf courses.

There are a few places that come close. The problem is that we have a bunch of free courses that are mediocre to pretty good. Combined with the fact that disc golfers are a "thrifty" bunch of folks that can complain about spending a couple $ to play a course. Ball golf courses are putting disc golf on their courses now and some old ball golf courses are being converted into disc golf courses, at least down here in Florida. The only way that we are going to get ball golf levels of courses is pay-to-plays. (And private courses).

 

[DavidSauls]

Anyway, this is all personal preference. I'm not trying to slag on Selah, it really is a very very nice course, but it made us realize that the criteria that serious disc golfers use to evaluate courses isn't the same as what we use.

Just curious how others feel about the distinction, and for people who feel like we do, what courses they found especially worthwhile to travel to play?

There is no one set of criteria. Everyone has personal preferences. This site's ratings are a consensus of a lot of them, and that's all. The highest-rated courses appeal to a range of tastes. But the further your tastes vary from that mainstream, the less useful you'll find the ratings.

Which doesn't make them wrong or you wrong. I've had the experiences of traveling to highly-rated courses to be underwhelmed---the same feeling, this is pretty good, but not great---but also to be dazzled. The forums are full of people who think a certain course is overrated, or underrated.

But there are also photos and reviews you can use to guide you. And courses on golf courses, which will be closer to your ideal in that aspect.

Myself? Manicured property, golf-course-style amenities, don't appeal to me all that much. I enjoy a walk through the woods or farmland more.

Oh, and it's a mistake to assume all these ratings are from serious or advanced disc golfers. Well, they're serious enough to travel to courses and write reviews, but they might be terrible players who still value well-designed challenges.

 

[wellsbranch250]

Interesting viewpoints Treeplant. I personally rate courses on a combination of factors. Just because a course is drop dead gorgeous doesn't mean I will score it high, although it helps.

Having lived in Texas for 2 and a half years I will say this. Everything is dead and dreary looking in the winter. Best time to play is March/April when all the wild flowers bloom. The courses at that time look completely different in Texas.

 

[zontar]

course layout for me. a well-tended, pretty site does a lot for me when I get there though. I've used this site to explore new areas and found some to be beyond my expectations, and others not up to them. I love the well thought out, somewhat raggedy course with no one on it, though....

 

[BogeyNoMore]

Completely agree with this:

i don't think we'll ever see the level of maintenance of ball golf courses on disc golf courses.

...and I don't think we ever could or should. Some of the best DG courses play through woods on terrain where it's not feasible (or even possible) to get mowers through, and to some degree, that's part of the appeal.

Speaking for myself, I review/rate courses, on the total experience, with particular emphasis on what I refer to as "disc play," but I also detail the various aspects of the course so readers can decide what's most important to them should their tastes/prorities differ from mine. And I specifically call out when I think a course is destination worthy.

Sorry you thought the guy at Selah was a bit of a jerk. Maybe he was having a bad day. Maybe he really is an a$$hat, and they need someone friendlier... I can't say.

But expecting anywhere near bolf type attention to detail in a sport where much lower cost is a big part of the appeal is foolish.

 

[filobedo]

We've done a bit of travel over the past couple of years to hit "the best courses" in the areas we've traveled to. A couple of weeks ago we traveled to Texas specifically to play Selah Ranch, which we've heard people refer to as one of the best courses in America, if not the world.

We were massively underwhelmed, both by the course itself and by the inhospitable, sullen welcome we received from the guy who opened up the pro shop for us (it was cold and he clearly didn't like the fact that anyone had come out to play and he had to drive out and open up the course).

Yes, the course was really nice, but that's all it was - really nice. It wasn't spectacular, breathtaking, especially memorable etc. The island basket hole was great for sure, and it was a really nice layout around the ranch, but I was pretty underwhelmed that that's considered one of the best courses in the world.

Since that trip we've realized two things:

A) The quality of the "best" disc golf courses we've seen compare in terms of professionalism and overall investment to a medium level ball golf course. I've traveled to play some of the best (public) ball golf courses and the quality of the best ball golf courses leaves the best disc golf courses a hundred miles in the dust. And I'm not talking about the stupid "luxury" **** like caddies and multi-million dollar clubhouses and valet-everything and $18 martinis from the cart-girls, I'm talking about beautifully manicured courses where every detail is thought out to the most minute detail, from scorecards to tee boxes to how precisely the rough is trimmed etc. That top level of maintenance and investment that exists in ball golf simply does not exist in disc golf. (Although if it does, I'd love to hear about where.)

B) A lot of the top courses are rated more on how the course plays itself than how scenic/beautiful the course surroundings are. This makes sense for advanced/pro guys, but for rec/intermediate people who just want a bit of challenge coupled with a great experience
I wish there was a way to rate courses based upon "Is this course worth travelling to play because it's such an awesome area to be?" For example, we did a Cali trip last year where we played De Laveaga, which is supposedly a world class course. It was really nice in a lot of ways, for sure, but we enjoyed Whale Rock about 50 times more than it (even though it's about the same rating on this site) because it's such a unique setting. A wooded course is a wooded course, we've played dozens of them, and yes it's nice to play a wooded course with really good lines and good tee pads and signage etc., but I'm not going to travel half way around the continent for good lines in a forest and nice tee pads. We actually much preferred the San Fran city park course to De Laveaga simply for the fact that it was in San Francisco, which we loved as a city. I'll happily travel to play somewhere with stunning mountain views (Canmore Nordic in Alberta), laid out in an active winery (Whale Rock), or a crazy tonal course in the badlands with tons of elevation, but after the disappointment of Selah we are completely changing the criteria we use to evaluate which courses we want to travel to and play.

Anyway, this is all personal preference. I'm not trying to slag on Selah, it really is a very very nice course, but it made us realize that the criteria that serious disc golfers use to evaluate courses isn't the same as what we use.

Just curious how others feel about the distinction, and for people who feel like we do, what courses they found especially worthwhile to travel to play?

IDGC, Nevin, Rollin' Ridge, Beaver Ranch, Blue Ribbon Pines and Tyler State Park are all worth the hype for Golf but only Beaver Ranch (Red Rocks!) and Nevin have nightlife, arts, etc. close by. The only course I have played that was overhyped and under delivered for the hype was Winter Park in Wisconsin. The course was good but needed maintenance and was ranked 25th at the time I played it. The unfortunate part of dg is course developers and owners either do not like nice golf resorts, have never visited nice golf properties or a PGA Tour event and/or do not have the resources to develop a dg resort similar to golf resorts.

 

[DavidSauls]

The unfortunate part of dg is course developers and owners either do not like nice golf resorts, have never visited nice golf properties or a PGA Tour event and/or do not have the resources to develop a dg resort similar to golf resorts.

....or do not believe those resources will generate similar return.

With good reason.

 

[BogeyNoMore]

Money's not the only reason for the dichotomy between golf & DG (because it's not), but it's one that doubt we'll ever "catch up" on.

And I for one, hope we don't. No way I could ever afford to play as often, or visit a few hundred different golf courses.

 

[DiscGolfCraig]

I'm not trying to slag on Selah, it really is a very very nice course, but it made us realize that the criteria that serious disc golfers use to evaluate courses isn't the same as what we use.

Reading the OP, I see there are two key points getting overlooked.

1. He liked Selah. He did not love it. Seems like he thinks it's closer to a 4.0 instead of a 5. Instead of being in the top 1%, it's only making his top 10%.

2. The crux of his discussion seems to be a better way of finding similar-styled courses. Just as Amazon, Netflix, etc. have algorithms that offer recommendations based on your interests (purchase history, viewing pattern, etc.), it'd be interesting if something like that could exist here. That way the OP would know that a course like Selah doesn't fit his tastes.

When planning a trip to city/state/country X, based on one's preferences, the site could spit out courses that best fit your interests. Say a player is coming to Charlotte and wants to play a solid course, but doesn't want to get their butt kicked. Instead of playing Renny or Nevin, maybe the algorithm suggests Rankin Lake, Goat Island or Stumpy Creek. It would be interesting what courses would get tagged/linked together. Or what under-the-radar courses would start getting more attention.



Or, the OP just wants every disc golf course to start having $80 green fees, and what I just said is completely wrong. There's always that thought.

 

[MikeK]

Boo hoo Treeplant. Boo hoo. Perhaps the dumbest post in years. Just because the collective ratings of a couple courses didn't match your personal opinion you think the entire rating system should be bent to your style? How self-centered are you? Stick to the ball golf courses you snob.

 

[DiscGolfCraig]

Boo hoo Treeplant. Boo hoo. Perhaps the dumbest post in years. Just because the collective ratings of a couple courses didn't match your personal opinion you think the entire rating system should be bent to your style? How self-centered are you? Stick to the ball golf courses you snob.

Well done sir! This made my morning. :clap:

I wouldn't expect that much saltiness coming out of New Orleans until AFTER the Saints game.

 

[DavidSauls]

The O.P. didn't say the rating system should be bent to his style.

He said "this is all personal preference."

He may have presumed too much about those who've done the ratings (that they're Advanced/Pro or "serious"), and his "we" may be a smaller group than he thinks. But he's asking how to find courses that meet his preferences, or if others have similar experiences.

 

[DiscGolfCraig]

The O.P. didn't say the rating system should be bent to his style.

He said "this is all personal preference."

He may have presumed too much about those who've done the ratings (that they're Advanced/Pro or "serious"), and his "we" may be a smaller group than he thinks. But he's asking how to find courses that meet his preferences, or if others have similar experiences.

Sounds like he did very little research before heading from Canada to Selah. You would hope somewhere in the planning process he would see, read, infer, determine what the course was like and how it played. You plan a trip and don't know a thing about the course. That's on you.