Destination Courses - Do You Go For The Course Layout or The Scenery/Surroundings?

[DiscGolfCraig]

Boo hoo Treeplant. Boo hoo. Perhaps the dumbest post in years. Just because the collective ratings of a couple courses didn't match your personal opinion you think the entire rating system should be bent to your style? How self-centered are you? Stick to the ball golf courses you snob.

Well done sir! This made my morning. :clap:

I wouldn't expect that much saltiness coming out of New Orleans until AFTER the Saints game.

Well. I did not expect THAT TO HAPPEN.

 

[air show]

Have been to Selah Ranch twice over the past two years and experienced many of the same feelings as the OP. I believe many of these negative feelings are a result of having such high expectations before arriving. For $20 a day I was expecting much more attention to detail concerning course maintenance. Two years later I played again and had a better experience because i did not have such high expectations but was still disappointed in the attention to detail given the courses.

The second time I was there I am sure I experienced the same maintenance employee as the OP referred too. His attitude somewhat reflected how the courses are maintained. Don't get me wrong Selah Ranch is still a wonderful DG destination on a beautiful piece of ground but feel it can be even better with more attention to detail. Also sounds like the OP may have not met Dave the owner. Dave is a very gracious host and makes the Selah Ranch experience more delightful.

Funny how my opinions differed after playing Selah and Trey then playing again two years later. The course I liked least (Trey Twist) may have become my favorite of the four courses the second time around.

 

[Mushin No Shin]

The Top 10 has always been, for the mostly part, a total joke

Not looking at you Idlewild, Flip, n The Ridge

No Mr Harmon, I wasn't looking at you either, I suppose...

 

[wolfmandragon]

The Top 10 has always been, for the mostly part, a total joke

Not looking at you Idlewild, Flip, n The Ridge

No Mr Harmon, I wasn't looking at you either, I suppose...

Speaking of being disapointed, thats what Idlewild was to me.
I went there on a trip to Ohio last October. I was expectingt more. The course was laid out poorly and signage wasnt too great either. The 747s taking off from the airport were loud enough to be painful. The course was tough; more to tall grass than anything else.

The course was pretty, and if not for the planes, would have been nice after a few rounds not getting lost.

So, courses rarly live up to the hype. The best courses I have played have been private
(Harmon Hills). I will take the quite over scenery...although both are nice.

 

[curmudgeonDwindle]

Given the resources required to create and maintain manicured ball golf courses, resources including petroleum and chemicals that damage the environment, I'm not in favor of DG adopting the course specifications/conditions expected for ball golf. Sure, any course requires grass cutting and upkeep, which requires gasoline and sometimes chemicals, but not near the level of ball golf. And yes, ball golf, overall, has become more environonmentally aware, but they couldn't have gotten much worse with their practices.

Your basic point is a no-brainer, but as someone who has experience in the industry, I take exception to your characterization of it overall. Sure it feels good to signal your virtue, but to me, it sounds as if you really don't know what goes on in the golf industry with regards to environmental issues. Golf is a big industry, and as such, superintendants have strict constraints, especially fiscal, that make efficiency a requirement for continued employment and that's just to start, exceptional situations not withstanding.

Take the Chesapeake Bay's pollution issues for example, the overwhelming amount of pollution there comes from ignorant homeowners, not professional agronomists or farmers. My suggestion would be to do some more homework & gain some more experience prior to popping off.

Moreover, to characterize the disc golf community and its environmental practices as somehow more worthy or preferable merely because of scale is also a canard. Most of the disc golfers I've met and played with over many years can't even identify the most common tree species in their area, let alone possess a 4-year degree in agronomy - if you believe in the value of that sort of thing.

As for the OP's question, it's a good one. At this point for me, a 'destination course' is just an excuse to get out of town for a while, but I look for how close a course comes to being a 'complete package' with a strong emphasis on the formal elements...

 

[thrembo]

I can tell you what all of our local tree species are, I just don't know what a "canard" is...

 

[ohtobediscing]

Well done sir! This made my morning. :clap:

I wouldn't expect that much saltiness coming out of New Orleans until AFTER the Saints game.

After THAT Saints game I don't think any of their fans have any saltiness left at all.

As for the rating issue, I imagine Selah is rated just fine---for Texas..

 

[BogeyNoMore]

After THAT Saints game I don't think any of their fans have any saltiness left at all.

The hell you say. As a long time Viking fan, I can tell you; tears are salty.

I remember watching:
Csonka running all over them in SB VIII
Harris doing it all over again in SB IX
Van Eeghan running all over them yet again in SB XI

If Staubach didn't knock them out of the playoffs with the original Hail Mary in 1975, they probably woulda gone to SB X (and probably would've lost to the Steelers :\... again).

Morten Anderson only missed one FG the entire 1998 season... the one that would've put them in SB XXXIII.

Given the way the Bounty-Gate Saints beat the hell out of Brett Farve in the 2009 NFC Championship game, last night's jaw dropping win over the Saints seems somewhat fitting,

So I can tell you... tears are salty. I'm just glad it was the Saints' season ending on that salty note, instead of ours.

 

[Stardoggy]

You'll be overwhelmed and underwhelmed when travelling around to play highly rated courses. A lot of it has to do with timing (weather, the "it" moment, etc). I do agree that Selah wasn't the greatest thing ever...but homer reviewing is real (VisionQuest, I'm looking at you). At the end of the day, it's all personal preference. I didn't love Idlewild. I thought Beaver Ranch was a bit overrated. I found Flip City to be absolutely amazing. The list goes on, but it's just my list.

Personally, I preferred Twist the most of the four local courses, even with cowpies everywhere.

Mostly, trying to expect any disc golf course to live up to ball golf standards is a fool's errand. The money just isn't there.

 

[DavidSauls]

Mostly, trying to expect any disc golf course to live up to ball golf standards is a fool's errand. The money just isn't there.

True. Though I'll note that there are 50-100 disc golf courses on ball golf courses---but they're not highly regarded by many people. A good indication that manicured landscape and amenities such as carts, concessions, and the rest aren't enough alone, at least not to many disc golfers.

 

[ohtobediscing]

Given the way the Bounty-Gate Saints beat the hell out of Brett Farve in the 2009 NFC Championship game, last night's jaw dropping win over the Saints seems somewhat fitting,

So I can tell you... tears are salty. I'm just glad it was the Saints' season ending on that salty note, instead of ours.

I didn't cry at all---just a sense of abject fatalism, 'cause the Saints have been there so many times before. And as a Brett Favre fan (Southern Miss!), I saw a certain irony in it too.

 

[Shuie]

True. Though I'll note that there are 50-100 disc golf courses on ball golf courses---but they're not highly regarded by many people. A good indication that manicured landscape and amenities such as carts, concessions, and the rest aren't enough alone, at least not to many disc golfers.

DGCR has revealed 74 ball golf/disc golf courses. Most of which seem to be in California.
I needed to know the exact number. OCD, can't help it. On top of that doesn't seem these courses get reviewed a lot, I see the criteria to 5+ reviews and only got 21.

Treeplant, I think I found the list your looking for??
https://www.dgcoursereview.com/brow...ndscape[]=2&landscape[]=3&on_bg=1&paytoplay=1

 

[MikeK]

Well. I did not expect THAT TO HAPPEN.

Just about unbelievable. Great game though. Stay salty my friends!

 

[DavidSauls]

DGCR has revealed 74 ball golf/disc golf courses. Most of which seem to be in California.
I needed to know the exact number. OCD, can't help it. On top of that doesn't seem these courses get reviewed a lot, I see the criteria to 5+ reviews and only got 21.

Treeplant, I think I found the list your looking for??
https://www.dgcoursereview.com/brow...ndscape[]=2&landscape[]=3&on_bg=1&paytoplay=1

A couple of years back Steve West (I think) was compiling a list of them, in a forum where people were submitting info to existing ones, as well as ones that had once been dual courses. I couldn't remember the exact number. It's a big thread drift as to whether golf courses are well-suited---length & too much open space---but few get top ratings, and in discussions of great courses or course recommendations, you almost never see a disc-golf-on-a-golf-course touted.

Of course we all have our own preferences, and there are a few disc golfers who love them.

 

[JRW III]

To the OP, when going to a destination course I look for the overall experience. While the course layout and the scenery/surroundings factor into this, the onsite lodging to accommodate a group of guys is more important. The Coral House at Selah fits the bill perfectly. The golf carts make a great addition to the overall experience. Don't really need the "best" course. Selah is really nice and fits the bill and having two are a bonus.

Lately we have been making our trip to Flat Creek which is attached to a winery. Single really nice course. If drive time were equal, I would pick Selah to get the golf carts. But since Flat Creek is half the distance to my house, it wins out.

 

[Tripper]

You'll be overwhelmed and underwhelmed when travelling around to play highly rated courses. A lot of it has to do with timing (weather, the "it" moment, etc). I do agree that Selah wasn't the greatest thing ever...but homer reviewing is real (VisionQuest, I'm looking at you). At the end of the day, it's all personal preference. I didn't love Idlewild. I thought Beaver Ranch was a bit overrated. I found Flip City to be absolutely amazing. The list goes on, but it's just my list.

Personally, I preferred Twist the most of the four local courses, even with cowpies everywhere.

Mostly, trying to expect any disc golf course to live up to ball golf standards is a fool's errand. The money just isn't there.

I agree about the "IT" moment. That was my first visit to Mountain Lake DGC in Pembroke, VA. Drove up the mountain through the fog. Played front 9 with fog still hanging about 10' above the ground, course to ourselves, it was magical. So much that we drove (5 hours each way) a different group of friends back the next week. Second visit was great but not the "IT" moment.

 

[Orioles_Lefty]

Your basic point is a no-brainer, but as someone who has experience in the industry, I take exception to your characterization of it overall. Sure it feels good to signal your virtue, but to me, it sounds as if you really don't know what goes on in the golf industry with regards to environmental issues. Golf is a big industry, and as such, superintendants have strict constraints, especially fiscal, that make efficiency a requirement for continued employment and that's just to start, exceptional situations not withstanding.

Take the Chesapeake Bay's pollution issues for example, the overwhelming amount of pollution there comes from ignorant homeowners, not professional agronomists or farmers. My suggestion would be to do some more homework & gain some more experience prior to popping off.

Moreover, to characterize the disc golf community and its environmental practices as somehow more worthy or preferable merely because of scale is also a canard. Most of the disc golfers I've met and played with over many years can't even identify the most common tree species in their area, let alone possess a 4-year degree in agronomy - if you believe in the value of that sort of thing.

As for the OP's question, it's a good one. At this point for me, a 'destination course' is just an excuse to get out of town for a while, but I look for how close a course comes to being a 'complete package' with a strong emphasis on the formal elements...

Seems like a touched a nerve. It's fair to say that I overstated my claims a little bit (mostly for effect). Your points about fiscal pressures and irresponsible homeowners are likely accurate, but they don't really get at the point I wanted to make which is that the manicured look of golf courses may generate some environmental harm and that creating more manicured DG courses may have the same effect. That was it really, and I agree with your point that most DGers are not environmentally focused.

Depending on all kinds of factors, it's not fair to say that the manicured course is always more environmentally damaging than the more natural course. Purposeful design that includes an aesthetic dimension might respond to an erosion and water flow issue existing in a more natural course, for example, or leaving a course purposefully "less manicured" doesn't mean it's surely better for the environment (it just might lead to that conclusion given that it looks "more natural").

The real issue to me is the fetishization of the "manicured" look. Golf course upkeep is (among other purposes) directed toward game play and appearance. Golf courses needs manicured fairways and greens in way disc golf does not. So, if the manicuring is mostly intended to "catch the eye" of people who care about such things, then so be it. It's not my preference, but I'm not a course owner, or an influential member of the DG community, or a big pockets sponsor.

 

[TheSloth]

IDGC, Nevin, Rollin' Ridge, Beaver Ranch, Blue Ribbon Pines and Tyler State Park are all worth the hype for Golf but only Beaver Ranch (Red Rocks!) and Nevin have nightlife, arts, etc. close by. The only course I have played that was overhyped and under delivered for the hype was Winter Park in Wisconsin. The course was good but needed maintenance and was ranked 25th at the time I played it. The unfortunate part of dg is course developers and owners either do not like nice golf resorts, have never visited nice golf properties or a PGA Tour event and/or do not have the resources to develop a dg resort similar to golf resorts.

Yes, Winter Park in Wisconsin and Water Works in Kansas City are the two most overrated courses in my opinion.

 

[Monocacy]

. . . Take the Chesapeake Bay's pollution issues for example, the overwhelming amount of pollution there comes from ignorant homeowners, not professional agronomists or farmers. My suggestion would be to do some more homework & gain some more experience prior to popping off. . . .

I have not independently reviewed this data but according to the State of Maryland the major Chesapeake Bay pollutants (nitrogen, phosphorus, and sediment) come from the following sources:

Pollutant............Farms....Wastewater......Stormwater.....Septic....Forests
Nitrogen.............36.6............25.5............20.3...............6.3........11.4
Phosphorus.........52.8............20.4............21.6................0...........5.2
Sediment............49.7.............0.8.............39.3................0.........10.2

I would assume that contributions from "ignorant homeowners" would be included in the storm water and septic categories. Certainly not "the overwhelming amount" either way, although results may be different if you had different pollutants in mind.

Source: http://baystat.maryland.gov/causes-of-the-problems-map/

To answer the OP's question, the course layout and the beauty of the course itself is what makes a destination for me.

 

[blazerico]

our "best course"

Who's best course? Harmony Bends owns the top spot now