[Innova] Destroyer Vs. Boss

[NatiBuckeye]

Yet another inconsistent mold from Innova? Who'd have thought it?

Do you think the pros get like extra special molds'?

Like the best baseball players get the vest wood bats?

 

[magictenor1]

I have only thrown the R-Pro Boss (150) and the 150 destroyer. Of those 2 I like the Boss hands down.

 

[Marv Vega]

I've heard the Destroyer is better in the wind and the Boss may not be the best disc for beginners but dang does it go.

I don't think either disc is good for beginners, maybe a Leopard, XL or Cheetah would serve beginners best.

 

[Marv Vega]

I have only thrown the R-Pro Boss (150) and the 150 destroyer. Of those 2 I like the Boss hands down.

I throw both molds in that weight on a regular basis, I really like the 150's. I'm not really sure I could pick a winner, they both seem fairly similar at least at 150G. The R-Pro boss gets a little more D than the Destroyer but does turnover easier. The Destroyer, for me anyway, flies straight and far, not as far as the Boss but close, and is a little more predictable and doesn't turnover as easy. They remind me of a high speed Valk vs. Viking comparsion. The DX Destroyer at 150G is better into the wind.

 

[ejvogie]

In my experience the Boss is very overstable in Champion but a little less overstable in Star and even more understable in R Pro. I think that this conversation has brought up one interesting point about the Boss. It seems that its mold is very inconsistent.

Correct me if I'm wrong (and SOMEONE will ), but doesn't the Champ come in heavier weights than Star, which is heavier still than R-Pro? This would GREATLY affect the stability ratings of the different plastics. Heavier discs are naturally more stable.

 

[XxInnovaxX]

why is eveyrone comparing a 150 boss to a destroyer?!?!?!? of course you will be able to throw the 150 further than a 170-175 destroyer.....if your gonna compare the 2 you have to compare the same plastic and same weight....

IMO i believe the destroyer is a lot better disc for distance, BH.....the boss just seems to be too much for me, and its only a 172....but my destroyer thats the same weight i can turn over if i want it too....ive never even been able to turnover my boss bh, its more of a specialty disc for hard left skips for me.....now if you throw fh it depends on how much of an arm you have, but if you can really bomb it out there the boss will be your best bet although theres really not much difference at all....

 

[jnecessary]

that sucks, just lost a long drawn out response...TLDR version because I'm not typing it again:
Boss/Destroyer are not overstable discs, they just appear that way because 95% of us can not throw them at their designed cruising speed. They are both in fact rated at -1 HSS, and both will fly a bit of an S when thrown flat at the proper power level or flip to flat when released slight hyzer from the proper power level.

 

[Marv Vega]

why is eveyrone comparing a 150 boss to a destroyer?!?!?!? of course you will be able to throw the 150 further than a 170-175 destroyer.....if your gonna compare the 2 you have to compare the same plastic and same weight....

IMO i believe the destroyer is a lot better disc for distance, BH.....the boss just seems to be too much for me, and its only a 172....but my destroyer thats the same weight i can turn over if i want it too....ive never even been able to turnover my boss bh, its more of a specialty disc for hard left skips for me.....now if you throw fh it depends on how much of an arm you have, but if you can really bomb it out there the boss will be your best bet although theres really not much difference at all....

I was comparing my 150 R-Pro Boss to my 150 DX Destroyers, same weight but different plastic. In my experience DX seems to be a little less stable and fly further than other Innova plastics out of the box. R-Pro plastic is new so I'm not sure about that yet, I do have a 173 Champ Boss and it's significantly more stable than either of the 150's mentioned already, which is to be expected. With the 150's I have had the opposite results as you with your 172 G discs but I'm on my 3rd+ Dx Destroyer and they all fly a little different so who knows.

 

[tbird888]

Do you think the pros get like 'extra special molds'?

Like the best baseball players get the best wood bats?

I know that ball golfers get special pro-only shafts (generally yellow) that they are not allowed to give to non-tour players if they give away a club - I worked at a country club with a PGA pro for a member and overheard a conversation. It doesn't stop them from doing it, but they're not supposed to.

You bring up a good question. One that would be good for Blakely or Cox tomorrow at the Course Challenge. I don't know them or else I would ask them. Even though they're Discraft sponsored (which doesn't have such a reputation for inconsistency), they might have some inside info. I know, spotting for the Bluegrass Open, that I've never seen so many first run Innova discs in one place (they all were well used - mostly Destroyers, too). In fact, on the day the pros threw at a fairly windy Idlewild, I don't think I saw one non-first run Destroyer, Boss, or Groove. The Boss, thrown by Will Schusterick (sp?), was the only one to clear the 400ft to the pin sign (600ft). No Destroyer broke 550ft. (Nikko threw probably 575ft and recorded the only 3 on 15 for the tourney. An impressive feat despite his earlier tantrums and the drama between rounds.)

I imagine, as pros, they get first pick of new discs, as well as being able to try prototypes before the first runs are released. I also imagine since they get so many discs a year for their sponsorship, if they try one and like it, they probably stock up on that mold. That way all those discs were made and cooled (in Innova's case, since they don't control their cooling process) in the same conditions, thereby giving them a good supply of consistent discs. If I'm wrong, please correct me. I'm just speculating.

As for the signature models, I also wonder if Climo/Schultz/Doss/... get input into tweaks to help mold their signature discs to what they want? I bought both a 11X and a 12X Champion TeeBird the same day and they are not the same disc. They fly slightly different and the 11X is a cloudy red whereas the 12X is a clear red and is a little domier. While I haven't found a better fairway driver for my game, this is what has caused all the animosity I have towards Innova. The 12X is starting to get close to the 11X after some thumbers but still isn't there.

Can anybody who is Innova sponsored or knows an Innova sponsored pro answer Nati's question?

 

[SpringDgLover]

Correct me if I'm wrong (and SOMEONE will ), but doesn't the Champ come in heavier weights than Star, which is heavier still than R-Pro? This would GREATLY affect the stability ratings of the different plastics. Heavier discs are naturally more stable.

You are absolutely right, I should have said that the max weight Boss's I have thrown in both Star and Champion seem to fly completely different. Of course the R Pro are going to be more understable since they only come in light weights. Also I have found that the Star molds are more domey then the Champion and this may be what is causing the understability.

 

[Omega SuperSloth]

In a battle between Innova's two fastest overstable discs, The Boss and Destroyer which one wins? I personally have only used Boss's but a lot of my tourney buddies play with Destroyers. I've heard the Destroyer is better in the wind and the Boss may not be the best disc for beginners but dang does it go. I will throw my chips in with the Boss, but I'm actually making this thread to see what the differences are more then anything. So bring on the opinions, gripes, applause and let the battle begin. PS: Eric could you set up a poll on this.

sorry the two fastest overstable drivers are actually three and they arent either of those they are the x-calibar,tee-rex and max.

the boss and destroyer are both stable drivers

 

[SpringDgLover]

sorry the two fastest overstable drivers are actually three and they arent either of those they are the x-calibar,tee-rex and max.

the boss and destroyer are both stable drivers

Yes for inhumans who throw 400 plus consistently they are are "stable" drivers. But for the rest of us regular Joes those discs are wickedly overstable regardless of there flight ratings.

 

[mashnut]

Yes for inhumans who throw 400 plus consistently they are are "stable" drivers. But for the rest of us regular Joes those discs are wickedly overstable regardless of there flight ratings.

I disagree, I can't throw 400', but the destroyer definitely has high speed turn when thrown flat for me, as opposed to the xcaliber which really is overstable, and starts fading right out of my hand it feels like.

 

[yoshama]

Destroyer for the win!!!!

 

[tbird888]

Yes for inhumans who throw 400 plus consistently they are are "stable" drivers. But for the rest of us regular Joes those discs are wickedly overstable regardless of there flight ratings.

I'm not trying to insult you here, but if you can't throw it without it being crazy overstable, it's too much disc for you. Calling it overstable because you're not ready to throw it yet only hurts you and those who listen to you. I'm sure even those "inhumans" with cannons learned to crawl before walking (and walked before they ran). They were probably bit by the "latest and fastest disc" bug, too.

You may find, though that your game might improve faster if you throw discs that are more consistent with your ability. Everyone wants to buy a Corvette when they should be buying a Cavalier. Unfortunately when someone buys a Corvette when they're not ready, they wind up wrapping it around a tree.

I disagree, I can't throw 400', but the destroyer definitely has high speed turn when thrown flat for me, as opposed to the xcaliber which really is overstable, and starts fading right out of my hand it feels like.

I agree. I didn't like the Destroyer or the X-Caliber much when I threw them, but they are definitely night and day on the stability scale.

 

[SpringDgLover]

I'm not trying to insult you here, but if you can't throw it without it being crazy overstable, it's too much disc for you. Calling it overstable because you're not ready to throw it yet only hurts you and those who listen to you. I'm sure even those "inhumans" with cannons learned to crawl before walking (and walked before they ran). They were probably bit by the "latest and fastest disc" bug, too.

You may find, though that your game might improve faster if you throw discs that are more consistent with your ability. Everyone wants to buy a Corvette when they should be buying a Cavalier. Unfortunately when someone buys a Corvette when they're not ready, they wind up wrapping it around a tree.



I agree. I didn't like the Destroyer or the X-Caliber much when I threw them, but they are definitely night and day on the stability scale.

I can handle both discs quite well actually and can turn max weight Boss's over with ease. Even more so with a Destroyer. I may have been over exaggerating by calling the discs over overstable for all regular "humans" but it has been my experience that when Im on the course in real world application these discs are almost always referred to as overstable. Now we can sit here and argue over semantics or how one person throws a disc farther then the other or how one person may get different results from a disc. But the fact is the only reason I set up this thread was to get differing opinions on two of Innova's fastest drivers. Not to be brow beaten by people who clearly know more then me on the matters of disc golf.

 

[CwAlbino]

I can't say this is true for a Boss because I've only thrown one once, but the Groove shouldn't be that overstable - nowhere near a Destroyer either. You really have to put some serious spin on it to get the flight right though. It took me a while to get the hang of it but can definitely say it's not overstable (the Groove, that is). I throw light weights too (why I chose the Groove over the Boss), so maybe a lighter Boss would help curb some of the serious fade you're getting.

Just thinking about it, I've heard several of the locals near me say that they have gotten both super overstable and practically understable Bosses from the same stack on the same day. I think the super overstable ones are pretty rare, so maybe you just got lucky with it.

That's all I've ever seen for the groove and boss. My Destroyer if not thrown with just the slightest hyzer at full power will have a gradual anhyzer and then come back. All the boss wants to do is hyzer hyzer hyzer all day long. The groove is getting better as I beat it in, but when I first got it, that's all it does.

I'm going to keep beating these against trees... maybe one day they will be true to what Innova says they are. BTW I know a guy that throws a beat in Xcal that is stable as hell... In my opinion, the Destroyer, the XCal and the Gateway Illusion are the best high speed drivers out there. I still think the Illusion is faster than any other driver I throw...

 

[NatiBuckeye]

That's all I've ever seen for the groove and boss. My Destroyer if not thrown with just the slightest hyzer at full power will have a gradual anhyzer and then come back. All the boss wants to do is hyzer hyzer hyzer all day long. The groove is getting better as I beat it in, but when I first got it, that's all it does.

I'm going to keep beating these against trees... maybe one day they will be true to what Innova says they are. BTW I know a guy that throws a beat in Xcal that is stable as hell... In my opinion, the Destroyer, the XCal and the Gateway Illusion are the best high speed drivers out there. I still think the Illusion is faster than any other driver I throw...

personally i dont think molds can vary as much as you are describing. Beating a disc against a tree or the ground is not the answer. Getting discs that fly at your appropriate speed or learning correct release angles is.

 

[CwAlbino]

personally i dont think molds can vary as much as you are describing. Beating a disc against a tree or the ground is not the answer. Getting discs that fly at your appropriate speed or learning correct release angles is.

Of course, but then how is it I turn over a destroyer and not a boss, when others are saying they turn over their boss but not their destroyer? They do vary, and they vary that much. I've watched and witnessed this. I bought my groove, and then while watching a friend of mine throw his groove, he was turning it over for a nice S curve and parked it next to the basket. I asked him to throw mine, and see if he could get it to turn over. It did nothing but hyzer and he was flabbergasted. He could also turn over his boss for a long anhyzer, did nothing but hyzer with my boss.

 

[tbird888]

Not to be brow beaten by people who clearly know more then me on the matters of disc golf.

First off, I wasn't trying to be a brow beater. This forum is for people that appreciate the game and want to not only get better but also help others to get better. If you were to step up and turn a Destroyer after a group of people hyzer them out, you'll show them that they have room to grow. In turn, they'll have a new goal to achieve in their disc golf journey and will get better.

Unfortunately on a forum, that has to happen through the written word which can often come across as arrogant, as I did. My intention was not to offend (as I stated before starting the post), but to try and help. I got to a certain level as a casual player but didn't start really improving until I had a lot of my misconceptions corrected by higher level players (not calling myself one here by any means - I have a long way to go). It stung because I thought I had my game together. Once the stinging disappeared, the advice sunk in and sunk in good. My scores instantly started dropping fast. I am still getting advice, and it still hurts. But after it sinks in, I get better. What's worst about it is having to go back to those players that think you blew them off and humbly thank them for their advice.

As for you thinking I know more than you about the game, I disagree. I'd love to throw a round with you sometime because I guarantee I'd learn something from you. That's what I love about this sport is that there's always something new to learn that can improve our games.