DGPT Drops New Media Outlook for 2019

[jvphobic]

Well, I am going to amend my Patreon estimate a little. With the number of videos they put out, odds are they are only seeing probably 40-50% of that and not the 80% that I was figuring. My mistake. So cut the Patreon number in half.

 

[Lazerface]

All I can say is what an IDIOT PR move from Dodge. He actually asked to come on SB for this. I guess he thought that if fans saw the "friendly" separation they would be less likely to get pissed, but people read through that crap. Terry said on the Ultiworld podcast that him and Johnny were hesitant up to the last minute to bring on Dodge. Of course they were. It's like, OK buddy thanks for giving us an opportunity and we aren't going to drag you through the mud or anything, but this is a little much.

Just shut your face and negotiate with/fire these folks in the background. If Dodge sat around a table with Jomez/CCDG/Smashboxx and that eventually led to an end in the partnership I'm almost certain none of those media folks would of actively worked to hurt Steve's image/brand. SB has actively defended the guy to some degree. I think that is why you see such animosity in this thread. We freaking love our media guys, and it's not just for the content. They are good folk by all accounts. Don't know a single one personally, but they cool for show.

Jamie don't play though, and I respect that too. He is calling it how he sees it. I'm not saying I agree with his perspective 100%, but it's genuine from what I've gathered, and that's all that matters.

I'm thankful for Steve Dodge as a fan. I really am. I love that somebody stepped up and took a pretty substantial risk in trying trying to profit off a pro disc golf tour. It gave us more events, more coverage, and more exposure. But damn Steve, you need to work on your PR skills.

 

[JTacoma03]

Can you explain this a little further? Are you saying there is no risk in quitting your day job to invest a large amount of money into starting a professional disc golf tour?

There's definitely risk taken on by the Tour itself, I don't mean to imply otherwise. We could spend days hashing out how we each feel the risk %'s shake out. The important delineating question is - was the potential compensation commensurate with the risk? I believe that the risk for the DGPT pays off in the long run, but with the media companies it was never from day 1 a guarantee that they weren't upside-down on their risk:reward calculation. The only real way to make it worth the risk for those media teams was to become resourceful and find alternative funding, or hope for a good buyout.

In the meantime, that meant bringing on more risk as a media brand, because a social media presence is hard to build and equally as hard to maintain.

Again - comparing to DGWT doing this in year 1 - at least that effort to build a social media brand was doing double duty. 1 campaign brings spotlight to all involved. The way the DGPT evolved - audiences had to accept that they had to fund (via Patreon, buying merch, etc.) the coverage for the DGPT, and also fund the DGPT by purchasing from them as well. If you bought a DGWT disc, by comparison - you were getting an item that supported both increasing media efforts (not outsourcing efforts) AND your favorite pros on tour.

Spoiler

Is that last paragraph slightly biased? Sure. I can admit that, but doesn't make it not true at the same time.

So for this business move - claiming they can "do more with less" and simultaneously increase their profit margins? Well they just pissed off a big segment of the paying audience, who was already paying twice for one product essentially.

I do believe that Dodge's decision is indeed callous and cutthroat from the perspective of the media companies.

In hindsight, do you think it was a mistake to do business in the manner stated in the second bolded part?

While I agree that disc golf is a small niche market, it doesn't seem that Dodge sees it as unready for cutthroat business. Likely, he is way out of line, but that is an ethical issue, not a business issue. Regardless of the size of the venture.

Having been burned in business ventures on handshake and mutual beneficial dealings, I now treat any transaction as contract law and try my best to see it all as big business. After all, regardless of size of the deal, it is always big business to me.

I hope I am not coming off as defending Dodge, cause that is, in no way, my intent. I think he likely handled all of this poorly.

Thanks for your respectful and thoughtful replies, Jamie.

It's a great discussion, I appreciate your perspective :thmbup:

100% I believe that contracts should be in place always. I, like you, have been burned badly in what I had hoped were good-faith negotiations and handshakes...actually more times than I'd care to admit honestly. I probably need to adopt a bit more of a cutthroat mentality with regards to business...but I digress.

I see the problem as twofold, and the reaction as the gas of one meeting the spark of the other, if that makes sense.

First is that it just feels bad to do it this way. Even the DGWT that I've oft referenced took much flack for consolidating everything in house under the SpinTV banner, given that Jomez and Smashboxx had just been subcontracted by us for the 2015 USDGC. I still contend that it was done honestly and transparently at that point, but history shows that most people preferred the outsourced, divide-and-conquer strategy of the DGPT. So there's precedent that should have been more carefully calculated.

Second is that, if they are going to do it this way - get the plan in place FIRST. I feel like that's PR 101, but maybe that's just me. To decide to split up with Smashboxx on Saturday night, then ask to come announce it on their podcast 72 hours later, and then issue a passive-aggressive follow-up statement asking everyone to wait for management to figure it out and announce it before casting judgment? Maybe I'm being too judgmental, but to me personally that doesn't signal strength or leverage in a negotiation.

 

[brutalbrutus]

All I can say is what an IDIOT PR move from Dodge. He actually asked to come on SB for this. I guess he thought that if fans saw the "friendly" separation they would be less likely to get pissed, but people read through that crap. Terry said on the Ultiworld podcast that him and Johnny were hesitant up to the last minute to bring on Dodge. Of course they were. It's like, OK buddy thanks for giving us an opportunity and we aren't going to drag you through the mud or anything, but this is a little much.

Just shut your face and negotiate with/fire these folks in the background. If Dodge sat around a table with Jomez/CCDG/Smashboxx and that eventually led to an end in the partnership I'm almost certain none of those media folks would of actively worked to hurt Steve's image/brand. SB has actively defended the guy to some degree. I think that is why you see such animosity in this thread. We freaking love our media guys, and it's not just for the content. They are good folk by all accounts. Don't know a single one personally, but they cool for show.

Jamie don't play though, and I respect that too. He is calling it how he sees it. I'm not saying I agree with his perspective 100%, but it's genuine from what I've gathered, and that's all that matters.

I'm thankful for Steve Dodge as a fan. I really am. I love that somebody stepped up and took a pretty substantial risk in trying trying to profit off a pro disc golf tour. It gave us more events, more coverage, and more exposure. But damn Steve, you need to work on your PR skills.

Yea, its the not knowing that has a lot of people upset, I think. If he would have brought it all out at one time, his plan and/or new partners, how its gonna change/ stay the same, if there is gonna be a pay to play aspect, etc it might have gone over a little better.

 

[toddnick]

I just became a patreon subscriber to Jomezpro (which was long overdue actually)...

I wonder if Jomez (and/or CCDG) charged a $20 annual fee for full FPO/MPO lead/chase coverage for say 20 events (NT/current DGPT/Worlds/USDGC) how much money that they could raise...

Plus all the sponsorship fees that DGPT is currently getting...

I'd gladly pay $20 annually for continued amazing coverage from some great people...

Probably could create a more lucrative tour and shut DGPT out starting in 2020...

Or am I wrong?

 

[DiscNinja33]

I just became a patreon subscriber to Jomezpro (which was long overdue actually)...

I wonder if Jomez (and/or CCDG) charged a $20 annual fee for full FPO/MPO lead/chase coverage for say 20 events (NT/current DGPT/Worlds/USDGC) how much money that they could raise...

Plus all the sponsorship fees that DGPT is currently getting...

I'd gladly pay $20 annually for continued amazing coverage from some great people...

Probably could create a more lucrative tour and shut DGPT out starting in 2020...

Or am I wrong?

I pay $20/month between the two, so they'd lose money on me. I figured I watch twice as much of their content as I do Netflix, so they deserve double what I pay for Netflix.

But yes, by charging they'd possibly bring in more money, I'm assuming they know somehow that model isn't the best for their situation?

 

[Dr.Smooth]

my first impression is this thing really seems screwed up, and then I remind myself, again...

disc golf- the Rodney Dangerfield of sports, ''just can't get no respect."

 

[Grippenripp]

Going World Tour direction for sure. Jomez, CCDG, Smashboxx are all great at what they do in their own way. I can deal with not watching pro tour events.

 

[kjr63]

Here is what I need people to get over. There is no way that the DGPT was going to be able to hire/buy Jomez.
I don't think that Dodge is looking to buy Jomez brand, as he would be to buy their expertise and apply it to the DGPT brand.

Perhaps this is however the proposition Steve Dodge has put out to Jomez? Them becoming the DGPT production team? That's what i would do if I were Steve Dodge.

 

[DiscNinja33]

Perhaps this is however the proposition Steve Dodge has put out to Jomez? Them becoming the DGPT production team? That's what i would do if I were Steve Dodge.

Dodge was offering coverage of the 3rd MPO card and I think FPO chase card. Basically, he offered them all a joke and no one is going to take it. That's what I've gathered from here and a few other areas.

 

[onemilemore]

Perhaps this is however the proposition Steve Dodge has put out to Jomez? Them becoming the DGPT production team? That's what i would do if I were Steve Dodge.

This was definitely on the table at one point. But I have talked to Jomez a lot about this, and he is fiercely dedicated to the brand that he has built. He's told me he would rather hang it up than work under another banner full time.

Dodge was offering coverage of the 3rd MPO card and I think FPO chase card. Basically, he offered them all a joke and no one is going to take it. That's what I've gathered from here and a few other areas.

I don't think this was the initial offer. I think this has come up since Jomez basically rebuffed the first offer of working under the DGPT channel. So there would still be an opportunity for Jomez/CCDG/etc. to cover the tour, but it wouldn't be on the top cards.

 

[perklc]

I don't think this was the initial offer. I think this has come up since Jomez basically rebuffed the first offer of working under the DGPT channel. So there would still be an opportunity for Jomez/CCDG/etc. to cover the tour, but it wouldn't be on the top cards.

This is how I've understood it as well. Either it's under DGPT or they get lower cards under their own brand.

Have we heard any thoughts from Jomez or CCDG about the way this was announced? I know Smashboxx said that they wanted to get the story out on their time and platform, but that meant that CCDG/Jomez couldn't control or have a say on how this was announced. Any thoughts, Ian?

I'll also be curious to hear players responses once the tour actually starts. Jomez/SB/CCDG all have years of building a rapport with the players. I am sure there are players that they have to film differently whether it's angle or how fast they have to have the camera ready or something else. How will a lack of this rapport impact the coverage?

 

[turbosteve]

I hope Jomez isn't hanging it up because of this.

 

[Royalhghnss]

This is how I've understood it as well. Either it's under DGPT or they get lower cards under their own brand.

Have we heard any thoughts from Jomez or CCDG about the way this was announced? I know Smashboxx said that they wanted to get the story out on their time and platform, but that meant that CCDG/Jomez couldn't control or have a say on how this was announced. Any thoughts, Ian?

Honestly just kind of amazed at the whole thing. That said, getting tourneys taken away is nothing new to me. We'll just go where were wanted and do our thing. Already headed back to a bunch of the tourneys we went to this year (Canadian Nats )

I always like to tell the Story of Rocky Mountain Championships. A tourney on two amazing courses (RIP) in Montana. The first year I went there were 40 open spots. Next year it filled up in 8 hours, and some touring pros showed up. I went again. Then it filled up in 8 minutes, and more touring pros showed up.

I hope Jomez isn't hanging it up because of this.

0% chance of that.

 

[blake833]

if you were a pro, what what would be better for your brand/your sponsor: playing every pro tour event and seeing how many views the pro tour production gets, or following around jomez and ccdg for probably more visibility? If they go to the pro tour, they would have to make lead card or close to get on video, but following the big companies mean they're more likely to get on video, or at least to commentary. Am I understanding this right?

 

[turbosteve]

I wonder if any pros have decided to skip some pro tour events?

 

[toddnick]

So here is what I posted on DGPT Facebook page...let me know if I was off base...

OK...here's what I don't want to hear when the official announcement is made...but I think that I might hear...something similar to this...

"We talked to Jomez and offered him either to be part of our team or to cover the lower cards but we could not come up with an agreement...we appreciate all that they (CCDG, Jomez, Smashboxx) have done for the sport and wish them only the best"...

That would be completely disingenuous for two reasons...

1. It is not respect to have a "hostile takeover", which I think is the best description of what is going to happen, of the people who (respect given) along with you have made the DGPT successful...to basically go for the money, things that will make sponsors happy...and leave others who have done just as much to impact on the tour in the dust...that is not wishing them the best, it is stepping on their neck and saying "be thankful that you are alive"...

Honestly, you wouldn't want to work for them any more than they want to work for you...it is their business as much as it is your tour...

2. I'm afraid that the announcement will include phrases like "this is what needs to happen to forward the sport" (talk to DGWT about that)...or "we strive to have the best media coverage ever", if so, why not use the best (not my opinion, everyone's opinion)...this is a lie to make it happen for sponsors...or to save money...

Please don't include these type of phrases as they are completely false but try to put on a good face...

Love the events, but this is a bad decision and money grab that at some point this week will be announced and justified with a bunch of crap...just my guess...

Tell me I'm wrong...

 

[BrotherDave]

Todd Hodge is a vendor, though I don't know exactly where he is located in NC.

I am running a special Z Sparkle Comet this year.

Todd Is in the Greensboro area I believe.

Correct. I believe he has moved in with Matt's Game Exchange. Here's his FB: https://www.facebook.com/ddgtoddhodge/ He's selling discs at a tourney I'm playing tomorrow so I'll find out for sure.

This was definitely on the table at one point. But I have talked to Jomez a lot about this, and he is fiercely dedicated to the brand that he has built. He's told me he would rather hang it up than work under another banner full time.

He should be dedicated. I've seen fans wearing Jomez apparel, never thought I'd see that. Jomez and CCDG both should be very proud of their brand.

 

[DiscNinja33]

Has anyone heard any info on what type of BBQ sauce Steve Dodge plans on using for the tents at DGPT events? I know the media end has been sketchy, but I'm wondering what these courtesy tents are going to look like.

 

[Owensjef]

Has anyone heard any info on what type of BBQ sauce Steve Dodge plans on using for the tents at DGPT events? I know the media end has been sketchy, but I'm wondering what these courtesy tents are going to look like.

Something bitter and cold