lyleoross
* Ace Member *
When did we go to a Caddy Shack conversation?
And since your general view has been that live stinks anyway, I can't help but feel you're making hay?
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DGPT - Jonesboro Open
- Thread starter LetsPlayGolf
- Start date
When did we go to a Caddy Shack conversation?
And since your general view has been that live stinks anyway, I can't help but feel you're making hay?
lyleoross
* Ace Member *
Yes, but the difference is that I didn't go out and do fakey Disney Cosplay around the alternate lives of Disney characters, so when Once started getting fetid it was easy.
Disc golf coverage is different, period. I play, I'm interested in the pros and how the events come out, coverage or not. Consequently, my tolerance is higher and I can look for specifics I want that add value.
Spectacledbear
Birdie Member
ah Jonesboro 2018 - great coverage. hmm, where did 2019 go? ah well
Not too sure about that one, there's just way too many media groups, peeps with a camera/phone, etc, etc. The elite players, elite events are bigger than any media group. If there is a demand to watch the content, someone will always find a way to provide it.
And maybe others can chime in.. but is Dodge doing any advertising/promotion for the DGPT outside of typical disc golf social circles?
Based on the name of this tournament, I would say yes.
lyleoross
* Ace Member *
I get your point, but there was nothing there prior to Steve. I don't see anyone doing this live, and as bad as the commentating has been, most of the smaller outfits are just as bad.
The number of eyes etc. Would have been less, although there's been some damage there. So you have a point, but Steve made Jonesboro big, I just can't see any other way to not conclude that.
An alternate model is TDTM. They've gotten big too, lots of pro support and Terry. But even still, I don't think it has the cache that Jonesboro does. Although, I'd argue they are there this year. Jomez...
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biscoe
* Ace Member *
TDTM was as big or bigger years and years ago when the course was in its first configuration and was still known as "Da Canyon".
With 10k plus added cash Jonesboro would draw the same field it does currently regardless of anything Steve has done. Granted, he provided some impetus to raise that much cash.
If a disc goes in a basket and Jomez isn't there to tape it, does it make any sound?
_MTL_
Flippy Flopper
- Joined
- Feb 19, 2008
- Messages
- 3,514
Yes and no.
It has to make sense geographically. Touring guys aren't going to bounce from Cali to say North Carolina and then back to Cali because the NC event has a huge purse.
However, you run any event with that much money and put it near time wise a big event, you will get people to show up.
I ran my normal summer B tier as an A tier 3 hours from worlds in 2012 and had multiple touring people come. And that was with only 3500 added.
lyleoross
* Ace Member *
I guess we're gonna have to agree to disagree. On my side is hundreds of millions in marketing data analytics dollars spent that prove to corporations that marketing in certain venues provides certain benefits, to the tune of them spending billions of dollars. Some of those analytics are applied to YouTube. If you read my post above, this isn't about whether Jomez is there or not, but about whether Jomez can make money or not. Your argument is that it doesn't matter if Jomez is there. Mine is that someone is willing to pay Jomez to be there. Someone thinks there is benefit and that it is paying off.
The simple fact is that Innova, Lat, Discraft and others disagree with you. They think it is worth having Jomez there and are paying for it. I'd think they'd be doing some numbers crunching on this, but maybe not? But in that case, someone needs to send a note to Discraft. Those poor suckers bought the most expensive pro out there, paid him a lot, in terms of signature discs etc., ramped up their marketing of him, his products, and their other offerings and players, multi-fold by my impressions, all over YouTube. Boy were they silly.
Oh, never heard of the event you mentioned, until I picked up TDTM on YouTube as put out by Terry. Yeah, I'm only one guy. On the other hand, Texas States was pretty much a state event, with some recognition in Oklahoma and Louisiana, up till Jomez started covering it annually. Now it gets regular discussions here on DGCR. So, it may just be me, but it's working, at least for one guy.
Now the question becomes, is it worth the value? Is Biscoe right, the money spent doesn't equate to sales, or is Innova and all the others right? I mean, one guy, me, why would you spend that money? Indeed, I roundly criticized Discraft for their investment, I didn't think it would pay off. I wonder if it is?
biscoe
* Ace Member *
As often occurs you are putting a whole lot of words in someone else's mouth. I directly addressed points you made on 2 specific events and the next thing i know I am claiming all sorts of things about how companies spend advertising dollars. Hint- arguing from the specific to the general is a logical fallacy known as illicit transference.
7ontheline
Double Eagle Member
Don't forget that the PDGA is supporting the DGPT, nearly a quarter of the world ranking is an average of your four best results. That'll get the best players there. The higher they're ranked the more leverage they'll have to negotiate with their sponsors.
- Joined
- Dec 19, 2009
- Messages
- 6,855
lyleoross
* Ace Member *
Let me apologize, it wasn't my intent to put words in your mouth.
It seems that you are saying there is little value to events in having video coverage. That those events have recognition without it.
I'm saying that there is value there, and I'm saying it based on what happens in the real world and with real-world research. For future reference, if I think someone has said something, I will write, "you said this." If I write something in a post, in reply to something someone posted, it doesn't necessarily mean that I've directly felt they addressed that issue. Simply that I'm providing information. Not everything that gets written on a thread, or even in reply, directly pertains to every person who has written a comment on that thread, or even in a post, at least by my perception. I could be wrong though...
Last, as I've written at least three times now, I think the point is moot, regardless. It doesn't matter if video coverage provides value to an event. What matters is that there is a pool of fans who watch the videos and who directly pay the video producers. There appears to be enough revenue there to justify their production. If by no other measure, then by the measure of, they're still doing it.
Please note, I don't think that every sentence here was in response to something you directly said, or even to a position you might have held or do hold. My perspective on why this happens is in response to numerous comments by multiple folks. I just happen to have posted it in a reply to one of your comments. If this bothers you then once again, I apologize.
lyleoross
* Ace Member *
You know what, I reread my post, and you're correct. I was to direct in replying to you. You were correct. Sigh.
lyleoross
* Ace Member *
So let's try again. What is the point of this comment? I just want to make sure I understand. Are you saying that Jomez brings no value to an event that it tapes? It feels that way, based on the language. Is my interpretation correct?
biscoe
* Ace Member *
My point is that the value of video coverage is a bit overblown at this point in the game. Events can and do run to the satisfaction of their TD's and staff and their players with or without it. For many TD's/events that is sufficient to meet their personal goals (which differ widely from one to the next). Obviously there is value in video coverage but it is not the be all end all it is portrayed as on the interwebs. It is just one part of a complex equation.
lyleoross
* Ace Member *
Oh yeah, and to directly answer this question, one way or the other, well, the guys on the card hear it. If they have any friends with them, those guys might or might not hear it, if they're paying attention, and possibly, if the card has pros on it, some fans might hear it, a couple of hundred or so. If Jomez is there, I hear that 100,000 or so folks hear it.
I wonder if any of them buy discs?
lyleoross
* Ace Member *
Great points. Personal goals should be the top of all our priorities. Do you think that there is a long term growth potential in the expansion of video? As a note, and I'm not saying you've addressed this, it's a piece of info for you to consider. Last time I looked, the growth of views over a three year period, up to this year, went from an average of about 25,000 views per video to over 100,000, for Jomez. I think CCDG is behind that, although for a while they were up there too. Ian has personal goals, family I think, that means he can't do what Jomez does.
Last, thanks for your patience.
biscoe
* Ace Member *
IMO there is certainly potential for growth in media. It is sort of a chicken or the egg thing though as to whether the growth of the player base follows the growth of the media or vice versa- in reality I am sure it is some of both. I am both getting old and a bit of a Luddite so my perception of it is not going to be the same as that of someone half my age. I have however been heavily involved in almost every aspect of disc golf for a long time so like to think I can see how we got where we are currently with pretty good perspective.
Will there be more and better disc golf related media and will it become more popular? Unquestionably.
Will we ever see engagement/big dollars from folks outside the game? Much less likely. (not that there is anything wrong with that) YMMV.
