So this is something I am completely in the dark about. How do these companies design a disc when starting from scratch? Are there hand made or 3d printed prototypes that molds are made from? And for that matter are there more than one mold for these discs and do the actual molds differ in the discs they produce? It seems silly to think that there is a single mold that is producing all these thousands of rocs. Basically I am completely in the dark about how my discs are thought up and made and very curious. I know a lot of this info maybe proprietary but one of you knowledgeable golfers must have something to share on this topic?
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disc design and production
- Thread starter BuddyBody
- Start date
Dsplayname
Double Eagle Member
Obviously, Vibram uses a different rubber, and therefore some parts of the process are different.
dgar
Par Member
I'll be interested to hear what those " In the know have to say "
At some point I wonder if new molds/designs are just a way to sell more disc and not much mor. I mean really... with all the molds out there now how different can a new one be.. There has got to be a mold for every shot and arm out there.. adding more molds just adds to the choices/confusion... I'd like to see some things that are DIFFERENT.. maybe new plastic blends, a different stamp process.. Something other than the same ol' same ol' stuff.. Couple things that come to mind are the Atlas and the MVP disc with the different rims.. not endorsing either but KUDOS to MVP and Innova for trying something a little different.
At some point I wonder if new molds/designs are just a way to sell more disc and not much mor. I mean really... with all the molds out there now how different can a new one be.. There has got to be a mold for every shot and arm out there.. adding more molds just adds to the choices/confusion... I'd like to see some things that are DIFFERENT.. maybe new plastic blends, a different stamp process.. Something other than the same ol' same ol' stuff.. Couple things that come to mind are the Atlas and the MVP disc with the different rims.. not endorsing either but KUDOS to MVP and Innova for trying something a little different.
Yeah I definitely agree that the number of models is a little ridiculous with companies like innova. It seems that a more reasonable approach is just to try to cover the different stabilities and speeds that people actually do want, like the way that vibrams line up works.
A rod
Birdie Member
- Joined
- Sep 7, 2012
- Messages
- 438
There certainly is alot of different molds. But even an obscure disc to you might be the best disc someone else has ever thrown.
Even with all the molds and weights, I sometimes have a hard time finding a good range of stability for my gf, even though she can hit 300'. So she throws a 6/10 star roadrunner for her control driver.
Besides, a disc only costs a couple dollars to produce. It never stopped pepsi or orbit from coming out with gimmick flavors.. But there will always be those 6 people who live for that tiny niche and have to have grape vanilla diet caffeine free pepsi.
Even with all the molds and weights, I sometimes have a hard time finding a good range of stability for my gf, even though she can hit 300'. So she throws a 6/10 star roadrunner for her control driver.
Besides, a disc only costs a couple dollars to produce. It never stopped pepsi or orbit from coming out with gimmick flavors.. But there will always be those 6 people who live for that tiny niche and have to have grape vanilla diet caffeine free pepsi.
Nah in the end I appreciate the selection. It just seems like most pros use a lot of the same stuff. And its a little confusing when I was new to disc golf. But really that's not completely relevant. Design aspects must be a closely guarded secret. I imagine design is done on a computer nowadays. I am just really curious as to how it begins. I can look at a disc and guess fairly well about how it would fly but I have no idea how I would begin to design one. Do they just make up a bunch and put the good ones into production and trash the poor flyers?
BirdieMachine
Michael Moore Fan Club President
For most general disc designs now a days there are plenty of models to design off of/ copy and get a accurate idea how it'll perform. Actually making the mold and producing the disc is the harder part. Plastic blends/cooling time/etc.
knettles
Double Eagle Member
I've wondered the same thing. I figure there had to be some aerospace engineers involved at some point. People that really know about physics/air resistance.
garublador
* Ace Member *
That is true in some cases (Aerobie and QK), but IIRC, the guys who started the big name companies were just discers who now have decades of experience with trial and error. My understanding is that the interaction between the actual design of the tool and the way the discs come out after cooling is the most difficult part to deal with. You have to have a good idea of what the disc will do after it's left the mold and take that into account when designing the mold to get something that will fly the way you've intended.
I don't know how they do prototypes, though. If they can just swap tool parts around then they can get them relatively cheap. My understanding is that it costs $10k+ just for the tool for the mold itself so they must have some sort of prototyping system. There must be some sort of rapid, low volume injection molding that they do. I'd think that any sort of 3D printing wouldn't give an accurate view of what the disc would be like after cooling, but I'm far from a plastics expert.
bhadella
* Ace Member *
Some good info is here.
http://www.dgcoursereview.com/forums/showthread.php?t=42838
Many of the "new" models are actually new combinations of existing "tops", "bottoms" and "wings". The cost of creating a new model from existing tooling is nill.
http://www.dgcoursereview.com/forums/showthread.php?t=42838
Many of the "new" models are actually new combinations of existing "tops", "bottoms" and "wings". The cost of creating a new model from existing tooling is nill.
Oh man it makes so much sense that they start with already existing disc designs how did I not realize this, plus based on my understanding of the way the molds work they may just be able to take existing mold pieces and interchange them as they see fit In order to create new prototypes.
Vibram uses compression molding, I believe. Everyone else uses injection molding.
Halcón
Free At Last
- Joined
- Jul 29, 2012
- Messages
- 12,038
Yep, which is why Vibram can make those awesome chunk designs, or half & half discs.
I'm no expert on injection molding, but I did work a summer at an auto parts factory working a press, and I have a great deal of respect for these companies for how consistent they're able to be. I know that sounds weird, considering how much complaining people do about molding inconsistencies, but it's hard as hell to even somewhat consistently get plastic to cool the way you want it to. I can't speak to the exact science behind why certain discs might cool differently than others, but I know that for the press I worked, the parts were fairly intricate, so on a good day would be 90-95% "good" parts, with the rest put in scrap to be reground. On a bad day, it could go as low as 75-80. To get a single batch out that's consistent in flight throughout is commendable (since that takes the same PLH, Dome, etc. throughout). For someone make as many runs as these companies do, and have them be nearly all similar in flight, is amazing to me.
