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Disc flight question
- Thread starter DGGuy0908
- Start date
It will start to fade less over time, and with some discs, they become understable, especially in the wind
BigGAC1
Par Member
"The Fade" as many disc manufacturers refer to it (the low speed turn) does not increase with age. In fact, its arguable that it decreases.
What does increase with age & wear is the high speed turn, or the understability of the disc.
What does increase with age & wear is the high speed turn, or the understability of the disc.
joecoin
* Ace Member *
- Joined
- Aug 14, 2013
- Messages
- 2,335
As the disc hits trees, the wing is slowly bent downward, which changes the shape of the disc and causes it to become more understable. It definitely happens because I have about 6 Avengers that range from Predator stability to Roadrunner stability.
BigGAC1
Par Member
How could you possibly debate this?
If you don't think this is true, then what do you think the purpose of "beating in a disc" is?
Says the guy whos been playing for roughly 5 months. And your logic is incorrect.
I'm pretty sure he was calling himself a noob and honestly asking the question. Yikes, take it easy...
Ahh that could be. I guess I never thought to read it like that.
^^That's what I thought, too.
smarkquart
* Ace Member *
Seasoning or wearing a disc in creates damage that creates an airflow effect that is close to how a golf ball flies. Most of this damage is superficial or micro, but obviously bigger damage will accelerate this effect. Basically, the air flow distrubance over the disc's surface is increased in size because the damage is creating bubbles of air which are technically making the disc bigger.
There are so many forces at work from drag, to lift, to rotational lift, gyroscopic effect, air pressure differential, etc, but a seasoned disc is most affected during the high speed portion of the flight, say the first 50-80% (arbitary number I am throwing out there). However, for all the reasons a disc fades, the effects on it due to damage and seasoning is minimal, especially in comparison to its high speed portion of its flight.
For argument sake, a new Predator will fade just as hard as a seasoned Predator. The only reason it may not appear as much is because a new Predator is more stable during the high speed portion of its flight, meaning it is fading left (assuming rhbh) from a flight that is relatively straight in comparison to the thrower. A seasoned Predator will fade almost just as hard, but its fade kicks in after the disc has turned a little, flying to the right, and is now starting its fade by going forward instead of straight left.
There are so many forces at work from drag, to lift, to rotational lift, gyroscopic effect, air pressure differential, etc, but a seasoned disc is most affected during the high speed portion of the flight, say the first 50-80% (arbitary number I am throwing out there). However, for all the reasons a disc fades, the effects on it due to damage and seasoning is minimal, especially in comparison to its high speed portion of its flight.
For argument sake, a new Predator will fade just as hard as a seasoned Predator. The only reason it may not appear as much is because a new Predator is more stable during the high speed portion of its flight, meaning it is fading left (assuming rhbh) from a flight that is relatively straight in comparison to the thrower. A seasoned Predator will fade almost just as hard, but its fade kicks in after the disc has turned a little, flying to the right, and is now starting its fade by going forward instead of straight left.
BigGAC1
Par Member
Oh. Haha. I definitely didn't interpret it that way. I suppose that would make sense too.
Old Dog
Eagle Member
Although it is true that a rougher surface on a disc is more aerodynamic and can be beneficial when distance is considered, the change in the texture of the disc's surface does not have a significant effect on the disc's stability. The gradual lowering of the PLH on the disc due to impacts is the main reason that discs change stabilities with age.
This is why tuning a disc can simulate beating it in--when the PLH is lowered (whether by normal use or tuning), the disc will become more understable. I might post a picture later of the difference in PLH of my beat Z Avenger (which is now a roller) and a new Z Avenger.
Some discs will lose their fade before ever developing turn as they beat in. Rocs and Teebirds are two popular discs that come to mind.
Um What. The two go hand in hand.
smarkquart
* Ace Member *
That is the problem with this overall conversation. There are so many factors that can determine a disc's flight. The PDGA technical standards are relatively rigid in regards to what a disc can look like. And yet we have how many different discs on the market with each doing something a little different? And within all these different molds, how many fly differently from run to run because of accidental or intentional tweaks to the mold and or cooling process?
For the sake of this particular conversation in regards to seasoning, that is a little different than tuning. I know I can be burned on this statement because I am summing it up in one sentence when a whole thread can be dedicated to it, but seasoning is a less exact science usually done unintentionally (at least in regards to the exact nature of the seasoning), while tuning is more intentional and methodical.
As for this statement, it is more a belief than backed up by data, but damage or seasoning to a disc that creates dimples and disturbances that make it look like a golf ball have a greater effect than the parting line being lowered due to accidental damage. Obviously, intentional lowering of the parting line by hand is going to have a greater effect than any tree hit and skidding against the ground.
Personally, this theory doesn't make much sense to me. For example, if I were to go out now and buy two new Avengers (I'm using Avengers because I am most familiar with them. This will apply to other discs as well), an X and Z Avenger, of identical shape, they would both be of almost identical stability, even though the surfaces of the discs are very different textures. The X Avenger will be slightly less stable (likely because of the surface and material density), but not significantly so. However, if I were to buy a new Z Avenger and a new Z Avenger SS, the Avenger SS will be significantly more understable, despite the fact that the surfaces are very similar. This is because the physical shape of the two discs is different.
In my experience, the flight of the disc is mostly detrmined by the shape of the disc, not its texture. Consequentially, when a disc is beat in, the flight changes mostly because the shape changes, not because the texture changes.
I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree, however I will agree that there are too many factors to expect to include them all in one post.
BobbyCorn
Bogey Member
Bird/Squirrel farts also may affect the time the fade sets in, obviously more gas = more fade.....
