"Disc Golf Not as Green as it seems"

[Matt B.]

Thanks,
Stephen

(One last aside about the "frisbee golf" name, since that's a matter of it's own.... It basically comes down to copyright. If you aren't familiar with the origins of disc golf, Wham-O has the Frisbee name trademarked; otherwise, this site would be probably be called FGCR. Others have pointed this out in the thread; we're not so thin-skinned to get upset about being called whatever the public chooses.)

Good response Stephen. Lots of people commenting on the "Frisbee golf" thing. Let's be clear about something here, which I think is illustrative of Ken's general approach and attitude: Ken is accusing the disc golf proponents involved of using the term "Frisbee golf" when addressing the general public because it sounds harmless, whereas if they were saying "disc golf" everybody would see through the lies. It's a pretty good example of the dishonest and hyperbolic approach he and his organization are taking to this issue. He sees the use of the term "Frisbee golf" as part of a devious conspiracy.

Ken, it's been good to get your perspective and for a while there I thought you could be reasonable. But for every evenhanded thing you've written, including admitting that you are working outside of your community against disc golf development, you've followed it up with more unreasonable and clearly dishonest rhetoric. Someone local could start an organization and a website that treats your group the way you are treating disc golf. Distortion, dishonesty, and fear mongering. The way you and SMP are operating invites conflict and backlash, unfortunately. You've gone well over the line of protecting your "turf" against a recreational development, and show no signs of being someone or an organization that any sane person would want to work with or achieve compromise.

I hope you can get some perspective on how you and your organization are mishandling the situation in your anger and bile toward a group trying to bring a recreational amenity that would be very popular to the park you live near.

 

[Matt B.]

This is my favorite line! "Lost discs cause a steady accumulation of plastic in the environment, as well as habitat damage by players frantically digging in bushes and other vegetation hunting for their favorite spins."

It does kind of sound like some of that old government propaganda doesn't it? "Their favorite spins"???? What's next, will folks from SMP put on some bad tie dyes and drug rugs and approach disc golfers saying "Hey there hep-cats, where can a cool dude buy some marijuana cigarettes"?

Lost plastic accumulation? Lord!

 

[zenbot]

When I say "DG" I actually mean "Death Golf" on account of how dangerous it really is.

 

[moorent]

It does kind of sound like some of that old government propaganda doesn't it? "Their favorite spins"???? What's next, will folks from SMP put on some bad tie dyes and drug rugs and approach disc golfers saying "Hey there hep-cats, where can a cool dude buy some marijuana cigarettes"?

Lost plastic accumulation? Lord!

What's really sad is that there are people who would eat that **** up

 

[Peterb]

The funny thing is, I totally understand all of his points and where he's coming from. You put in a disc golf course where there was previously unmanaged land and you are changing it. That has never been a point of contention in my mind. Nor has the question of where it might be appropriate to build a course. Ken says he was prompted to write the half moon bay piece based upon one comment in the original article which mentioned the fitzgerald marine reserve as being a place disc golfers would love to play. Knowing that amazing reserve myself, I can definitely say that there's not a snowball's chance in hell that it would ever happen, nor should it. I think we can all agree that disc golf doesn't belong in many, many places.

Where we differ is whether or not it belongs in McLaren Park. I believe it does, SMP doesn't. Simple as that really. I think the concerns are legitimate from the neighbors are legitimate. Ken and SMP have 'come around' to see that there is a legitimate recreational resource that doesn't cost the city anything, provides millions of hours of outdoor time to a pretty large number of people, but they also think it doesn't belong in the park closest to their homes. Fine. Let the park commission figure it out.

I'm truly sorry for the way RPD presented the issue. It should never have been declared a done deal and I personally value the concerns that people have. I wish that part could be done over again. If there was a course in McLaren, there would be a new DG based community interested in not only the maintenance, safety, and cleanliness of the course area, but of the whole park. This was a chance to have even more civic pride and be neighborly, and the SFDGC would have loved to have had the opportunity to get to know the neighbors better and help out. Clearly, that sentiment is not reciprocated.

 

[Menacewarf]

So, how is it "green" and "healthy" to get kids and families out to enjoy nature while simultaneously diminishing it? I have two young girls that I take to McLaren every time I get the chance and it is more than enough for them to climb a tree or walk the dog or take a stick and dig for bugs or watch the hawks and other birds soaring above. That's what I am fighting to preserve. And that's what the dozen or so folks on our Coordinating Committee and the thousands of folks who signed our petition and the hundreds of folks who read our newsletters and come to our park events are also dedicated to protecting. When those few acres are gone, there isn't any more.

Thanks for reading,
Ken

Climbing trees and digging holes probably qualifies as "enjoying nature while simultaneously diminishing it." Climbing trees damages bark and digging holes and messing with insects; yah that would qualify as diminishing nature. This makes your argument seem more selfish than logical.

 

[onemilemore]

Let me tell you who is improving the park. SF Urban Riders recently got a grant to turn a long-abandoned eyesore of a 5-acre asphalt patch into a bike skills course, greening it as they can along the way. THIS is improving the park and our group fully supports this effort. But you want to take a lovely meadow where if you squint a bit you can feel like you are on a country trail, where the rule is "stay on the trail", and install infrastructure and play a game where it is impossible to stay on the trail, and where the much of the appeal of the game is bushwhacking to find your lost disc. Can you not see the distinction?

I know this is from a few pages back in the thread, but I had to comment on this.

Bushwhacking is most certainly not something that people enjoy as part of disc golf. In fact, it is quite inconvenient to have to retrieve discs out of the rough. And, if you are in the brush, you did something wrong.

This just sounds like more rhetoric used to incite visions of careless vagrants as opposed to park users playing a game.

 

[The dude on the bike]

What kind of a nut puts blades on a disc.

 

[The dude on the bike]

Whenever I look for a disc I use a machete in the bushes, and a boat motor in the water. I also blow carbon dioxide at people.

 

[TheTennesseeFireman]

Well put, Peter. As much bile and miscommunication have been thrown around on both ends, the issue at hand is pretty basic: there are tradeoffs whenever previously undeveloped land is developed, and Ken doesn't want to make those tradeoffs. We can certainly debate how large the impacts are and whether or not the recreational value is worth it, but it's foolish to deny that both sides have fair points to make.

 

[texhop58]

What kind of a nut puts blades on a disc.

I've got tons of them. Never know when that zombie apocalypse is coming. (Don't know why i think I could hit zombies if I can't hit a stationary basket). And what better use of a groove!

 

[texhop58]

By the way, I did contact the pdga with the website. I do feel it very slanderous to the sport and the players. I do suggest as many of you do the same.

 

[discRabbit]

What about the article was slanderous? I've been enjoying disc golf for a while now but I am also adult enough to know the genuine impact that it has on park space. I'd agree with much of what the article said...

 

[TheTennesseeFireman]

By the way, I did contact the pdga with the website. I do feel it very slanderous to the sport and the players. I do suggest as many of you do the same.

There's no need for that. It's a special interest website just like all the others on the internet. The PDGA have better things to worry about, and the issue is better left to those with a working knowledge of the situation.

 

[mudkip]

What about the article was slanderous? I've been enjoying disc golf for a while now but I am also adult enough to know the genuine impact that it has on park space. I'd agree with much of what the article said...

I agree. I think disc golfers themselves are the sports worst enemy. In my town anyways. There are beer cans and bottles stacked up at most of the tee pads on most of the courses I play. 99% of the players smoke out while they play. I'm not bothered by that stuff but it doesn't do much good for the sport's image.

 

[thePiRaTE]

Is it time for the bumper sticker campaign? "Disc Golfing Is Not a Crime".

 

[texhop58]

Did you read the article of the saftey of disc golf on his website? How dangerous it is, a d how we cover the danger with calling it "frisbee". Here is the safty link. If you go through the whole website you will find more references. http://www.savemclarenpark.org/SMP4_dgsafety.html
And he we t out this week across country with concerns of another course. From California to Kentucky. That was my concern. You think he will stop with just those 2, you can believe that. And yes some of us are our own worse enemies. But there is some of us that do pick up for the people who don't.

 

[Menacewarf]

Saftey? When is the last time someone was seriously injured by a disc? I'm sure it has happened but I have never heard about it and there is a lot of disc happening around the country every day.

 

[texhop58]

I can't find it now but he had all sorts of news articles and picture of injuries. I work in a trauma center. I see more injuries from dog parks and mountain biking (which are both things he wants to use land for) then I have ever seen disc golfing. I usually see 2 or 3 a month of either one of them during nice months. I have never had a disc golf injury come in. Now I know they happen. I am not that naive. Like I said my biggest concern was his attempt to spread his "ideas". Plus pdga is a special interest group in a way. Might as well use them

 

[Matt B.]

What about the article was slanderous? I've been enjoying disc golf for a while now but I am also adult enough to know the genuine impact that it has on park space. I'd agree with much of what the article said...

Nothing about it. I think it's been said several times in this thread that Ken has a lot of good points. Of course, a lot of stupid **** has been said as well.

Anyone has a right to protest a change to a park, or well, anything. Disc golf does not belong everywhere and it has an impact. To say that disc golfers are saying it has no impact is a straw man argument.

The problem with Ken and SMP's campaign, in my opinion, is that they've gone from organizing against disc golf at McLaren and in the process developing a nice park friends group, to mounting an anti-disc golf campaign in the region and elsewhere. The SMP website is virulently anti-disc golf, and not just in the context of the park. It features a "Disc Golf News" section which cherry picks negative disc golf stories from around the country. Ken and SMP are writing anti-disc golf op-eds in regional newspapers, and he takes every chance he can to attack the course in GGP, while also saying that he doesn't really want it to close. SMP appears to be an organization losing direction and focus because of their anger about the disc golf proposal for McLaren. Trying to shut down other proposed disc golf courses in the region, but then saying it doesn't really want them shut down is just weird.

It's very clear that Ken has a personal and emotional issue with the local disc golf club, and with the Parks department. The whole campaign and Ken's tone is very angry and paranoid. The rhetoric being used is wildly unrealistic, and the spin is worthy of FOX News. Case in point, Ken's contention that disc golf proponents use the term "Frisbee golf" when speaking to the general public as a devious ploy to hide their true nefarious purposes. It's just insulting and weird. These people are volunteer advocates of a sport they love and which is very popular almost wherever it is installed. To describe their motivations as sinister and conspiratorial is just loony.

You can advocate and organize against disc golf in your neighborhood park for many legitimate reasons, including that you just simply don't want it there, period. Disc golf does have environmental impacts, just like anything else. In this case, the Parks department stepped in it big time and really pissed off some park users. Somehow, this has resulted in SMP and Ken deciding to advocate against disc golf around the region. It sure sounds personal and emotional from the outside looking in.