Disc sales volume

[Central Scrutinizer]

I got my first Disc (a Stingray) when the guy who introduced the sport to our local area (he's PDGA #315) sold it to me out of his garage for $6. I'm guessing the production numbers were a tad bit lower in 1989 than they are today. Fascinating to see the figures you all are mentioning. Wow.

 

[rhatton1]

Innova's sales are definitely more than 1,000,000 discs per year. They have about 60% of the market, give or take, so I would say that number is closer to 3 or 4 million.

I heard from a reliable source that DD just hit $1,000,000 in total sales, but that number is probably deceiving because its retail and wholesale.

As for Gateway I am not sure how much they have really grown the last few years, but I would put their annual sales around $500,000 based on conversations I had recently.

I think a lot of disc golfers don't know what the market really is. Its not local clubs and tournament players and auctions, buying on FB, etc. 95% of disc golfers do not play tournaments and do not buy discs from a club, online, etc. They buy from big retail, where Innova and Discraft dominate the market. Innova is far and away the top company in sales, and Discraft is far and away the #2 company in sales.

With that in mind, Discraft is far and away the number one company in Ultimate, with over 90% market share.

3 - 4 million would have been about my guess.

DD figures would be inflated by sales of the baskets and bags- they've certainly shifted a few of those units at much higher retail price points. They have a lot of irons in a lot fires to produce that 1 million though with retail, production and worldwide distribution - certainly not easy made money but good to see them getting there.

I think your 95% estimation is probably bang on, there is a huge market of one/two disc wonder players out there that play once every few months and the regular players/addicts like us will never have any interaction with.

When it comes to disc sales as well probably our largest market here in the UK is sales into schools - 50 units or more at a time for discs that will never see the light of day on a course we play on but will get thrown around a field to portable baskets in the PE lesson once a week.

if that is the case with Gateway, it's a shame as their putters have been the best around for a long time (I am relegating my Wizards slowly in favour of Prodiscus though) , I would like to see them pick up some more market share than that. $500,000 turnover for a company that employs a few people and has the big overheads of manufacturing isn't where i would want to be having been in the market that long, especially a market growing at the rate it is.


Lovely to see the purpose built MVP factory/warehouse, thanks for that Aim, now why haven't they got baskets up all around it

 

[turbosteve]

This is an estimate of the European sales market.
https://allthingsdiscgolf.com/want-disc-golf-to-grow-follow-finlands-lead/

 

[turbosteve]

I would estimate that Innova and Discmania sold close to 10 million discs worldwide in 2015.

 

[COLODISCR]

I'm really curious if the market share really still is. I'm sure Innova is still top dog as they are the only brand I can find at major sporting good retailers and outdoor stores locally. Heck even some small outdoor shops in the mountain towns carry Innova discs. When it comes to the specialty disc golf stores (I'm lucky enough to have three fairly close by) Innova still seems to be tops but Latitude plastic, more specifically Dynamic Discs molds, seem to be the most 2ND most popular from what I've seen based on stock kept and what seems to be going out the door in others hands. These stores carry all the major brands too and I still see those two brands go out most and buy those the most myself.

The current marketing trends us what I see driving the changes. Dynamic Discs absolutely blows everyone away with marketing right now. The website has videos provided for almost all molds and does give aways for those discs. On top of it they seem yo send out a ton of plastic for review, something that is huge in this day of social media and Internet research. Innova is clearly up there with marketing too using Mcbeast and SpinTV still sending out a fair amount of plastic for review. There are nowhere near as many videos and reviews for other brands though.

I used to bag a couple Discraft discs but they reside in the storage bins now with Innova/Discmania and Latitude 64/Dynamic Discs filling my bag. Most of the people I play with carry mainly Innova and trilogy plastic. The others are not so well represented on the course with only one or two discs out of 6-12 (depending on how many are carried) being Discraft or others. Most of those ones are carried by guys who have played a long time and will never not bag their 10 plus year old Buzz.

This is all speculation on my part but it seems to me things are changing a bit. I'd like to see the numbers to know for sure.

 

[Ron720]

For some reason Discraft kinda has a bad rep around my neck of the woods. Some of the local shops that are listed as a Discraft dealers don't even stock Discraft. They tell me it takes for ever to get an order from them. And on top of that most people coming into the store don't even ask for Discraft discs. I sometimes hear people say that it seems Discraft has pretty much given up on the sport. It's to bad really as I like the Discraft discs I own and would buy more if I could.

 

[JohtoVillage]

Discraft is far and away the number two manufacturer in the sport and I can assure you they have not given up on the sport. They are making significant investments in the sport and have a lot of exciting things happening in 2016. Discraft also has 90 to 95% of the ultimate frisbee market. Discraft has 15 to 20% of the disc golf market, while Innova has probably 55 to 60% of the market. That only leaves about 20% to 30% for everyone else.

DD probably has 2% of the market, maybe less. Discmania is certainly up there above all of the smaller ones. I would imagine Prodigy is around 1 to 2% and Latitude has a small amount as well. Gateway is probably 1 to 2%. Legacy, MVP and those type of companies are probably something in the 1 to 2% range as well.

I know I am missing a few companies as well.

 

[turbosteve]

Discraft is far and away the number two manufacturer in the sport and I can assure you they have not given up on the sport. They are making significant investments in the sport and have a lot of exciting things happening in 2016. Discraft also has 90 to 95% of the ultimate frisbee market. Discraft has 15 to 20% of the disc golf market, while Innova has probably 55 to 60% of the market. That only leaves about 20% to 30% for everyone else.

DD probably has 2% of the market, maybe less. Discmania is certainly up there above all of the smaller ones. I would imagine Prodigy is around 1 to 2% and Latitude has a small amount as well. Gateway is probably 1 to 2%. Legacy, MVP and those type of companies are probably something in the 1 to 2% range as well.

I know I am missing a few companies as well.

I find it incredibly hard to believe that DD only has 2% of the market. I see a lot of people throwing DD in Charlotte including a lot of casual players.

 

[JohtoVillage]

Read above...Dynamic Discs just crossed $1,000,000 in total sales. That includes retail prices on discs they sell direct, apparel, baskets, wholesale discs, etc. Maybe they sold 150,000 discs last year, which puts them at about 2% or so.

Seeing people throw DD in one area of the country is not a gauge of market share. DD is a new company that has not established relationships with big retail yet. That is where a majority of the sales in disc golf take place. People would be surprised to know how many discs are moved on Amazon.

 

[JohtoVillage]

Once again, the largest problem disc golfers have when looking at disc golf is not being able to get out of their own region or area and assuming that all disc golf sales take place at tournaments, local clubs, local shops, etc. This is very false. 90 to 95% of players that play disc golf do not play tournaments and don't know who Paul McBeth is. Likewise, 90 to 95% of the market do not buy discs at tournaments, on Facebook, etc. They buy from big or bigger retail. In order to understand the market, I think we have to truly "understand" what we are dealing with.

 

[turbosteve]

You can buy DD products on amazon.
http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_n...search-alias=aps&field-keywords=dynamic+discs

 

[JohtoVillage]

I am not bashing DD in any way. But to think that they are a huge player in the market right now is not accurate. They are growing fast, but they are still not a large player yet. The numbers do not support that.

 

[turbosteve]

Where are you getting your numbers? I have an article where it says Dynamic Discs has around 50 employees. They are also having events in stadiums. I find it incredibly hard to believe they are only having gross sales of a million dollars. If its that low they would probably go bankrupt. The governor is making a visit to their business. It's clear to me that Dynamic Discs is having an impact and is a major player.
http://www.emporiagazette.com/news/government/article_2f457c8b-e3b3-586c-b350-94a00af2ea20.html
http://www.emporiagazette.com/news/article_1fcd49a9-d952-5ff8-9ccd-7be418c71037.html

 

[scarpfish]

I have no data to back up my words, and I live in the middle of Trilogy (and hence DD) country, but I sure see a lot of DD plastic in rec players hands around here. The local PIAS (don't know is they count as big retail) has more Trilogy stocked than it does Discraft, including misprints.

 

[turbosteve]

These articles demonstrate to me that Dynamic Discs is selling a lot of product.
http://www.emporiagazette.com/news/article_94298d76-77b9-11e3-85c7-10604b9f1ff4.html
http://www.emporiagazette.com/news/article_822ba123-5cd5-514c-8843-4141eca12f3f.html

 

[Phil Esra]

I would agree with that, and congratulate them on doing so. It is important to remember that they started from a unique opportunity that was likely not available to other recent "start-ups", but it's impressive to see how they have grown, nonetheless.

What was the opportunity?

I would estimate that Innova and Discmania sold close to 10 million discs worldwide in 2015.

Wow. That's a lot of Finnish huckers!

One of the things that directly led to my (clearly wrong) perception of golf disc mfring as small-time is the cheeseball graphics on some of Innova's DX discs. It's crazy to me that they're putting out, what, 500,000+ Sharks a year in starter sets with that crude drawing. It seems like those cartoony DX illustrations MUST be off-putting to a certain fashion-conscious age group of new disc consumers.

 

[shawny0123]

I am not bashing DD in any way. But to think that they are a huge player in the market right now is not accurate. They are growing fast, but they are still not a large player yet. The numbers do not support that.

You're wrong, perhaps you live in an area dominated by Discraft which leads you to your conclusion. In my area Trilogy outsells Discraft by a margin of at least 2 to 1. Whoever threw out a number of $1 million in sales for DD is just throwing a number at the wall and seeing if it sticks . The disc golf event that DD runs in Cowboys stadium costs them six figures alone to put on. That's not something a company that just hit $1 million in sales would be financially able to do.

The math is pretty simple based on the article links provided. If they are shipping 100-200 boxes 5 days a week you can do some quick math to figure a general amount of discs shipped each month. Even being on the very conservative side thats easily 25,000 a month, which is probably way too low but again trying to be conservative. That's 300,000 discs a year at say $6 a disc on average. Now add in all their other products, ranger bags etc. and you start to paint a picture of a company that's probably leaning more towards $3 million plus a year. I wouldn't be surprised if they did closer to $5 million a year.

 

[JohtoVillage]

Once again, saying that you live in DD country and see people throwing it is not an indication of market share. It would make sense to see people throwing DD in their backyard.

DD is a relatively new company in terms of wholesaling a product line. The $1,000,000 sales figure was from someone within DD. Keep in mind, I am not referring to Trilogy, I am just referring to DD when I talk about their sales and market share. I am sure that the entire Trilogy brand probably has 5 to 6% market share. But Discraft and Innova have been around for 30 to 40 years manufacturing and selling discs. It takes a lot of time to build up relationships with retailers and big retail.

As for having 50 employees, I knew that figure as well. They have a lot of part time employees that probably make minimum wage, and they don't make their discs, so that keeps their costs down. DD just started making a product line a few years ago. They are growing fast, but my numbers are accurate.

I mean, some of the things that are being said mean nothing. Having an event in a stadium means you have a lot of sales? That means nothing. They paid to rent the stadium, and they charge people to play. That event does not bring in a lot of money for them, but I am sure brings good exposure. DD definitely can run a good event, but once again, 90 to 95% of disc golfers don't even play events.

Discraft has nearly 250,000 discs in their warehouse at any one time ready to ship, while I am sure Innova has more than that. I have been to the Discraft warehouse and have seen pictures of the Innova warehouse, and the DD warehouse pictures are literally nothing compared to Innova and Discraft. It takes time to grow market share.

 

[JohtoVillage]

I got the sales figure straight from someone at DD, so its not wrong. It was a 2014 sales figure, so I am sure they have grown from there. They are certainly not doing $5,000,000 a year. That same guy at DD just said Rusco just finally got to take a small salary.

I do not live in an area dominated by Discraft. You guys refuse to look at the big picture. You just stated that Trilogy outsells Discraft 2 to 1 "in your area". You guys have got to look at the bigger picture, plain and simple. Discraft is not number one in my area, but my area is irrelevant. You guys are making the same mistake that most disc golfers make. "Well my area is dominated by so and so company." Your area is not even a piece of the pie - big retail is where a majority of sales take place.

Also, you keep mentioning Trilogy. I am just talking about DD and their own product line, not the entire product line. The entire Trilogy line has 5 to 6% market share, as I already mentioned.

Also, as for the Stadium event, I am sure its not cheap to put on, but they bring in revenue from the event obviously. So that event may cost quite a bit, but they bring in revenue to offset that.

 

[shawny0123]

Once again, saying that you live in DD country and see people throwing it is not an indication of market share. It would make sense to see people throwing DD in their backyard.

DD is a relatively new company in terms of wholesaling a product line. The $1,000,000 sales figure was from someone within DD. Keep in mind, I am not referring to Trilogy, I am just referring to DD when I talk about their sales and market share. I am sure that the entire Trilogy brand probably has 5 to 6% market share. But Discraft and Innova have been around for 30 to 40 years manufacturing and selling discs. It takes a lot of time to build up relationships with retailers and big retail.

As for having 50 employees, I knew that figure as well. They have a lot of part time employees that probably make minimum wage, and they don't make their discs, so that keeps their costs down. DD just started making a product line a few years ago. They are growing fast, but my numbers are accurate.

I mean, some of the things that are being said mean nothing. Having an event in a stadium means you have a lot of sales? That means nothing. They paid to rent the stadium, and they charge people to play. That event does not bring in a lot of money for them, but I am sure brings good exposure. DD definitely can run a good event, but once again, 90 to 95% of disc golfers don't even play events.

Discraft has nearly 250,000 discs in their warehouse at any one time ready to ship, while I am sure Innova has more than that. I have been to the Discraft warehouse and have seen pictures of the Innova warehouse, and the DD warehouse pictures are literally nothing compared to Innova and Discraft. It takes time to grow market share.

Yes it does mean you have a lot of sales because otherwise how would you be able to pay six figures to rent that stadium? If you view that event as marketing, which is what it is, that's a large amount of money for a company that only hit $1 million in total sales to be able to spend. I agree Innova and Discraft are both larger at this point but for you to say DD is a small company is rather foolish and nearsighted.