Discing down adventures.

[Technohic]

Back to just the discussion of actually discing down, I got the idea to throw together a bag for discing down with a variety mids and putter I already have to cover different shots:

Gateway H Series Warrior 182g
Innova DX Stingray 167g
Innova DX Stingray 167g
Latitude 64 Opto Line Core 176g
Latitude 64 Gold Line Core 172g
MVP ION 175g
MVP ION 174g

On one hand, this sounds like a fun way to use some mids that I havent for a while but do enjoy, but on the other hand; I have learned to cover most shots with my Core to where I dont know if I should be messing with the more understable Stingray or heavier fade Warrior but figure I could try developing my hyzer-flip better with the Stingray and see if I can get the Warrior to do my OH and skips that I would do with my Banshee ordinarily.

I dont know if thats a good idea or bad.

 

[slowRoll]

Then what are you trying to say? Isn't it obvious that trying to both change your form and compete are nearly impossible to do at the same time? That's pretty universal across all sports.

Wow. Are you not capable of practicing different phases of the game without completely abandoning all the others? When I'm out by myself on a slow day, I'll empty my entire bag on holes just to see what works and don't bother keeping score. I'll throw sidearm for an entire round just to see what that is like on my home courses and again find what works on certain types of holes. Then when I travel to a course I've never played before I can say "This is just like hole suchnsuch back home" and use the type of throw I've practiced before on that hole. This is called practice. It doesn't ruin all my competitive instincts or somehow take away from my current skillset. It is perfectly fine to work on improving without dumping every fast disc you own into the do not use box.

I'm not some great player, I'm not even rated in the top 20 amateurs in my state yet…but I'm working on it. If you guys think that you can improve your game by not using speed X and up discs more power to you. I'm on record as suggesting that this is not the best way to improve, just as not ever touching a putter and focusing solely upon the game from the tee box isn't the best way to improve. I am perfectly capable of working on improving my game without hamstringing myself by only using the slow discs. Are you not able to do this too?

 

[garublador]

I am perfectly capable of working on improving my game without hamstringing myself by only using the slow discs. Are you not able to do this too?

Again, it's a false assumption that, unless you already have the skills to compete in advanced/pro, you're limiting yourself by only throwing slower discs. There is a much better chance that you're limiting your skill development by throwing faster discs and trying to get them to fly right. If you're a candidate for discing down it's a much easier way to improve than trying to force high speed discs to work for you when thrown under speed.

 

[slowRoll]

Again, it's a false assumption that, unless you already have the skills to compete in advanced/pro, you're limiting yourself by only throwing slower discs. There is a much better chance that you're limiting your skill development by throwing faster discs and trying to get them to fly right. If you're a candidate for discing down it's a much easier way to improve than trying to force high speed discs to work for you when thrown under speed.

OK garublador, I hear you, but it still seems like something one could do on their own practicing. Taking them all out for such a long period of time is really a drastic move. Making it so that it's not even an option to throw a fast disc just seems like some sort of self inflicted rule that the other guys won't be following. I guess that is the real root of it with me. By discing down, I'd be a "Red Coat" while my competition would be hiding in the woods, firing at will. That didn't work out so well for those guys either. I'm out for the day, have a good night all.

 

[garublador]

OK garublador, I hear you, but it still seems like something one could do on their own practicing.

It is for practicing, that's what we've been saying all along. You didn't like that answer, remember? More practice, i.e. doing the drill for longer, will net more results up to a point. Eventually you'll gain from incorporating those faster discs back in, but at that point you're probably to the point where you're looking to gain consistancy and have a solid set of skills built. How long it takes to get to that point depends on how much you play, how effiecent you practice and at what plateau you're willing to settle on.

Most people that do it find they end up using their faster discs way less than before even if they don't throw much farther than they did before. They ususally end up being able to use slower discs for the same shots that they used faster discs for in the past. Going from throwing a Wraith 360' to throwing a Teebird 360' will probably "only" get you 40' of distance, but you'll also favor a safe 360' shot over the 400' shot unless you need that extra 40' to gain a stroke. That actually doesn't happen nearly as often as many people claim. Throwing <350' happens way more than throwing >350'. Really, the point is to focus on the 80% of shots that you'll use and gain accuracy there. Focusing on the faster discs will only help you with 20% of your shots which most efficiency experts will agree is not a great way to improve.

 

[ArcheType]

^garublador just owned you with knowledge,

how do you feel?

 

[PanicKJ]

I switched my bag up and and only throw fairway drivers and actually cash in the tournys that I play in now. I still have a valkyrie in my bag however I only use it once or twice a round. Consistency is the differance.

 

[Mike C]

When I play league games at my home course my destroyer only gets used for two drives and the rest are handled by a wizard, buzz and stalker or teebird.

 

[ThrowaEnvy]

Making it so that it's not even an option to throw a fast disc just seems like some sort of self inflicted rule that the other guys won't be following. I guess that is the real root of it with me.

It's kinda like kicking a dead horse after Garublador's last post...

If slowRoll doesn't want to follow the program religiously whatever... you don't have to be that absolute, but it will net better results faster. The same way seeking advice leads to results faster than stumbling blindly. Have you got a Comet yet? There's an investment in form, this forum talked me into it and now I clean up, I don't care what else is in the bag.

I don't know what range you're hitting, but check out Joe's universal flight chart at Gottagogottathrow.com. It has speed ratings relative to the DISTANCE you're throwing. If you're using drivers that are faster than you should be throwing YOU are the one handicapping your advancement with the Boss/Force/whatever in your bag. I can't believe how awkward some of those drivers feel now, and how much harder it is on my body to throw them. Two of my favourites to throw for the dog are a Panther and Roadrunner, even at full weight they feel easy to throw 20-50 times a day.

Argue all you want, without attempting a disc down, it makes you seem like a rebel without a clue.

 

[djjeremiahj]

i'm one that believes that discing down is the path to upward growth.
in the beginning, you throw whatever you can huck 300'.

now, as i mature, i realize that the following distances are integral to consistency and control.

0-200: should be within the range of a putter
150-250: should be within the range of your Roc (approach disc)
250-325: should be within the range of your Teebird/Eagle

Once you can acheive these ranges (consistently) the game opens up greatly, your score drops and gets consistent, and birds find your way.

This isnt to say that there isnt still a need for long range drivers... i am saying that IF you can do the above mentioned ranges, the game really opens up. I still use my speed 8+ discs for various shots, but i am working hard to reach consistency in the above mentioned shots. It's nice to see 325' on a teepad marker and think, "If i have a line, i can park with my teebird." (*and have the confidence to really mean it*).

*For perspective, (as per the innova site) the Pro's mention the upward ranges of the Teebird and Eagle as 375'!!!!! - WOW!

 

[Mike C]

375 feet is Buzz territory

 

[slowRoll]

^garublador just owned you with knowledge,

how do you feel?

Just fine thanks. See, we're discussing a topic by talking things through like grown folks, not taking personal shots at each other like little kids. I view the more experienced posters on here as knowledge resources to consult with and bounce ideas off of. I also know that they aren't perfect; they all have their own set of preferences and biases that they've picked up through living just like anyone else. That means that I don't take everything that they say as gospel. If I have questions about something, I'm not afraid to ask. This also means that if I disagree with something that I read, I'm not afraid to do that either.

 

[cfair]

not taking personal shots at each other like little kids.

Kids... yeah, karate kid. Remember that one? I also thought you said you were washing your hands of all this. I am as well BUT I do want to thank you for voicing your thoughts. Not because they're correct (which in some way they are), and not for the purpose of free speech/thoughts (whatever), but because it provided some great thoughts and ideas from those who responded to you, albeit a little to harshly. Including myself, I am sorry.

Back to the discussion,

Going from throwing a Wraith 360' to throwing a Teebird 360' will probably "only" get you 40' of distance, but you'll also favor a safe 360' shot over the 400'

This is why I've enjoyed discing down. I'm tossing my banshee and TL as far as I put my teerex and wraith. More accurately, more consistently, more confidently.

But this is what my bag looks like at the moment

2 Rpro Aviar (one with aviar stamp)
Summit
Ridge
VP
Leopard
TL
Banshee

Throwing the Vibrams as my mids because the firm rubber is not my thing for putting BUT they do great as mids. I'll post distances with them soon.

 

[slowRoll]

Kids... yeah, karate kid. Remember that one?

C'mon cfair. You're killing me. :doh:
The karate kid comment was a joke directed as much at myself as anyone else. See what happened was I said "knife to a gunfight", then that analogy turned into "martial arts master" (think ninjas!) in a later post, then I just walked on out that tangent with the Danielson joke. Oh nevermind. I really was done, but felt like people kept taking shots at me rather than discussing my questions. I'm now trying to be done again... we'll see how that goes today since it'll probably be another slow day here at work.

 

[cfair]

we'll see how that goes today since it'll probably be another slow day here at work.

same here my man. But its cool. I don't think people were so much taking shots at you but at your pride in line of thinking. But yeah I'm going to be doing this for a while and will probably be competing soon. In competition though (unless is D level) I would more than likely be using a nice distance driver (Wraiths and Teerexs like me a lot).

Maybe you'd like to give it a try, come play for the other team and all that opcorn:

 

[craftsman]

Oh really, I thought the karate kid comment was a new nickname for beato

 

[bpatton]

Throwing my teebirds and stalkers in tournaments, instead of destroyers and wraiths has worked for me in tournament play. I was rated 910 at the end of 2009, and am now rated 950. pdga#38864. True, the faster disc will travel farther, if you know how to throw. However, golf is almost always about location, rather than distance.

Your point is well taken though, slowroll. If I have the space to rip a wraith or destroyer, I will. However, an 800ft. wide open field hole? That sounds like the suckiest suck of a hole that ever sucked.

 

[slowRoll]

However, an 800ft. wide open field hole? That sounds like the suckiest suck of a hole that ever sucked.

Why have just one stupid long wide open hole when you can have several?

http://www.dgcoursereview.com/course.php?id=2610&mode=hi

They don't have pictures on that course posted, but yea... over 90' wide fairway if you're playing ropes OB loooong holes with only a handful of 2 year old trees to speak of. Phil Moore was what I was thinking of when I posted that.

 

[cfair]

The suckiest suck that ever sucked... okay. I don't think I would mind. Sometimes I like tossing two bomb's back to back. Makes your second shot a tricky critical one that could have footing issues. I don't know about you all but I hate driving full force on uneven ground.

 

[BrotherDave]

Slowroll,

The point is that many players cannot throw the faster discs fast enough to make them fly correctly and should use slower discs. I cannot make use of anything faster than an Eagle really so that is the fastest disc I use, tourney or otherwise.

If a player can throw 400'+ then the faster discs have their place and he probably does not need to practice discing down.

Understood?


Is this understood?