Do Private Courses Get Rated Higher?

[mjoyce]

Yes, but not to the same degree.

If I were a public course designer I might be able to design a Gold Course. I might be able to design a course for beginners. I might be able to design a course for an elementary school.

But if I'm designing a private course on my own property, expect a bias towards my skill level---or, more accurately, my skill level and above---and the type of holes I find most fun. Because I'll end up playing it a lot, and want to enjoy doing so. Hopefully others will find it enjoyable as well.

I see what you mean. I was thinking of course design much more generally. IE here's some public land we want to put a disc golf course on. Design it however you see fit.

 

[Connor Jones]

Hole 1 is a par 4 and 27 is a par 5, at those distances, you can easily birdie both of them with well placed shots, can you not?

 

[mjoyce]

Yes, but not to the same degree.

If I were a public course designer I might be able to design a Gold Course. I might be able to design a course for beginners. I might be able to design a course for an elementary school.

But if I'm designing a private course on my own property, expect a bias towards my skill level---or, more accurately, my skill level and above---and the type of holes I find most fun. Because I'll end up playing it a lot, and want to enjoy doing so. Hopefully others will find it enjoyable as well.

Do you think this is a contributing factor ini private courses being rated higher than public courses?

Where Public courses are designed to fit a specific need (gold level,beginner, elementary school whatever) a private course is designed to cater to a multitude of skill levels most likely focused on what type of shots the owner finds fun? Possibly evolving over time as the course becomes more popular?

 

[Dave242]

But if I'm designing a private course on my own property, expect a bias towards my skill level---or, more accurately, my skill level and above---and the type of holes I find most fun. Because I'll end up playing it a lot, and want to enjoy doing so. Hopefully others will find it enjoyable as well.

Exactly! if you did not do that I would think you are crazy for spending all the money and time and sore hands & back for something that you did not get as much enjoyment out of that you could.

And......I am hopeful that the course owners whom I have not given the same high marks can appreciate that I simply have a different set of criteria than them as to what I really enjoy. I realize that I take the risk of having them think my lower marks are a slam on their herculean efforts and expenditures.......I have absolutely zero doubt that most of the homies that give my reviews :thmbdown:'s think that is what I am doing (hence my contention that private courses get a fair amount of over-rating).

 

[Mr. America]

I throw 300' accurately and 360' max, so a hole that is say 380-480' and open-ish is boring as I can just throw 2 conservative shots and almost always get my 3. Any deuce I get is a fluke and so any scoring separation is due to my screw-ups. All punishment and no reward....boring and not fun. And, you extend that math out to multi-throw holes that are just a little too long.

This is how many courses seem to be for me. Don't quite have the extra few feet to get more birdie chances.

 

[DavidSauls]

Do you think this is a contributing factor ini private courses being rated higher than public courses?

Where Public courses are designed to fit a specific need (gold level,beginner, elementary school whatever) a private course is designed to cater to a multitude of skill levels most likely focused on what type of shots the owner finds fun? Possibly evolving over time as the course becomes more popular?

I actually find the opposite.

I've seen more public courses that span a range of skill levels. Often with multiple tees, sometimes with a variety of holes (some gold level, some blue, some white---though you can take this kind of thing too far). A few with 2 courses at one location.

We have to distinguish between whether private courses tend to be rated higher simply because they're private, or whether private courses tend to be better and thus rated higher. Probably some of both, but I believe the latter is the major factor.

 

[Dave242]

Hole 1 is a par 4 and 27 is a par 5, at those distances, you can easily birdie both of them with well placed shots, can you not?

Hole 1 had the basket tucked way up the alley (near the opening of the chute close to the house) when I played - not as shown in the picture here (but similar to how it is on the map). I do not have the arm to get close enough to the opening of the chute on my drive to allow my approach to get into putting range for a birdie (its uphill so the effective length of the hole is way over the listed 510'). That relegates me to 3 mid-power, low-risk throws for a drop-in par.

On 27, I don't really care that par is 5 since that means for a birdie all you need to do is throw 3 233' throws (with tons of airspace to work with) to be under the basket. If that is the case, it is too short. If it is considered a 2 throw hole, it is too long for me (and shaped to difficult) to ever expect a birdie. I can go either way (too short or too long), since for me it is a tweener hole.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with those holes for people with either more arm or less arm than me.....in fact they are both great holes for those folks. But for me, they are boring scoring-wise and as such do not add to the "addiction factor" of the course.

 

[magictenor1]

Havn't played flyboy or flip so no comment on what they should be rated. I do totally agree with dave that a review is YOUR idea of a course and no one elses. You are rating based on your preferences not what some hypothetical person out there might think. The entire idea of rating a course "objectively" is crazy. A review is subjective by nature and definition. I do think fun is a valid criteria for rating. If you are not having fun playing then why are you out there. Dave does tell you how he rates courses and gives you why he likes certain courses. the info is there whether you agree with the conclusions or not.

 

[Connor Jones]

On 27, I don't really care that par is 5 since that means for a birdie all you need to do is throw 3 233' throws (with tons of airspace to work with) to be under the basket. If that is the case, it is too short. If it is considered a 2 throw hole, it is too long for me (and shaped to difficult) to ever expect a birdie. I can go either way (too short or too long), since for me it is a tweener hole.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with those holes for people with either more arm or less arm than me.....in fact they are both great holes for those folks. But for me, they are boring scoring-wise and as such do not add to the "addiction factor" of the course.

Did you even play 27..?

Throwing 233 feet will not do anything for you, there will be a massive wall of trees that will be impossible to get over.

You have to throw more like a 330-350 turnover or hyzer flip, then throw a hyzer over the edge of the runway, then get up and down to get a birdie. Takes a few good shots to make it happen.

 

[Dave242]

Thanks magic (when I auditioned for chorus, they told me to I should sing tenor.....tenor twelve miles away that is.)

The entire idea of rating a course "objectively" is crazy. A review is subjective by nature and definition

The only way I can figure to be objective in reviews is to come up with an objective ranking of each subjective element that is important to you. That's why I do what I do.

Funny thing is, in most cases I am within 0.5 discs within the DGCR average (as close as you can be without matching exactly). For this reason, I am a big fan of using the DGCR ratings to point me to the course I want to play when I am travelling through an area.

sorry for the off topic post

 

[mjoyce]

Havn't played flyboy or flip so no comment on what they should be rated. I do totally agree with dave that a review is YOUR idea of a course and no one elses. You are rating based on your preferences not what some hypothetical person out there might think. The entire idea of rating a course "objectively" is crazy. A review is subjective by nature and definition. I do think fun is a valid criteria for rating. If you are not having fun playing then why are you out there. Dave does tell you how he rates courses and gives you why he likes certain courses. the info is there whether you agree with the conclusions or not.

I take no issue with Dave's rating system at all actually and as you state reviews are subjective by nature.

I disagree with your comment that fun is not a valid criteria. I think that more fun can be had at some courses than can be had at others but that's also subjective as your definition of a fun course may differ from mine. But you're right in stating that if you're not having any fun then you shouldn't be playing.

Just as an example, before playing Flip City I played The Ponds at Lakeshore. We visited the throw shop there before we played and the owner was telling us that Moraine and Deer Lakes were better courses than Flip City. So not everyone rates private courses higher. Nor do I think they should be rated higher.

I think a lot of times the experience of traveling to a private course, most likely meeting people from DGCR that live in the area, and playing a new highly rated private course inflates that persons rating of the course.

Though I would imagine a public course's rating could also be inflated by similar circumstances. I just don't see them as being "destination" courses like some of the highly rated private courses.

(any of this can be taken with a grain of salt due to my limited number of courses played)

 

[Dave242]

Did you even play 27..?

Throwing 233 feet will not do anything for you, there will be a massive wall of trees that will be impossible to get over.

You have to throw more like a 330-350 turnover or hyzer flip, then throw a hyzer over the edge of the runway, then get up and down to get a birdie. Takes a few good shots to make it happen.

Yes, of course I played it. And, I just rechecked with the measuring tool on Google Maps. 250' from the tee to the tree near the corner of the hangar. Then 250' to the bend around the tree. Then 250' to putting range. (I was wrong with my 233' since the hole is listed at 700, when it is closer to 750')

You are right - it does take a few good shots to get a birdie for me.....but getting extra aggressive to chase a reward does nothing for me above and beyond playing safe. Again, bigger arms and lesser arms would have a very different experience on this hole.

 

[NOSteveLA]

Now I think everyone is entitled to thier own opinion as well but I also believe that people should not
just gang tackle a guy because his opinion is not your opinion. He gave an honest and fair review and yet
people have went so far as to wanna yell at him? Get over yourselves..Flyboy might actually have a flaw.
No course is absolute perfection....

 

[Connor Jones]

Hey, Im not complaining about his rating, merely trying to understand it. I really don't care what others rate it, flyboy is a five to me and that's all that really matters at the end of it all.

 

[Grape Drank]

Private courses are usually more fun, since there is not nearly the amount of players using them when compared to a public course. Does that deserve a better rating? All a matter of opinion.

 

[magictenor1]

I take no issue with Dave's rating system at all actually and as you state reviews are subjective by nature.

I disagree with your comment that fun is not a valid criteria. I think that more fun can be had at some courses than can be had at others but that's also subjective as your definition of a fun course may differ from mine. But you're right in stating that if you're not having any fun then you shouldn't be playing.

Just as an example, before playing Flip City I played The Ponds at Lakeshore. We visited the throw shop there before we played and the owner was telling us that Moraine and Deer Lakes were better courses than Flip City. So not everyone rates private courses higher. Nor do I think they should be rated higher.

I think a lot of times the experience of traveling to a private course, most likely meeting people from DGCR that live in the area, and playing a new highly rated private course inflates that persons rating of the course.

Though I would imagine a public course's rating could also be inflated by similar circumstances. I just don't see them as being "destination" courses like some of the highly rated private courses.

(any of this can be taken with a grain of salt due to my limited number of courses played)

I actually said fun IS a valid criteria

 

[mjoyce]

I actually said fun IS a valid criteria

Sorry man I misread your post.

 

[prerube]

Now I think everyone is entitled to thier own opinion as well but I also believe that people should not
just gang tackle a guy because his opinion is not your opinion. He gave an honest and fair review and yet
people have went so far as to wanna yell at him? Get over yourselves..Flyboy might actually have a flaw.
No course is absolute perfection....

Flyboy may have flaws, but he rated 20 courses higher. Read his reviews, they all have double digit thumbsdown. Dave may be the only person witth quadruple digit thumbsdown, this is not just about flyboy worship.

 

[Dave242]

Now I think everyone is entitled to thier own opinion as well but I also believe that people should not
just gang tackle a guy because his opinion is not your opinion. He gave an honest and fair review and yet
people have went so far as to wanna yell at him? Get over yourselves..Flyboy might actually have a flaw.
No course is absolute perfection....

I do not sense I am being gang tackled or yelled at. My life has been threatened, but no yelling going on that I can tell.

I did have a little fun with prerube about his pitchfork comments, but him recounting that experience of the locals being upset added to the discussion in that it helps us understand the extra level of home boy bias that private courses earn themselves (rightly so in many ways, I might add).

I am all for reviews spurring good discussion about hole design! That is what I like most about being here (it is a course review website I believe). :clap: :clap:

 

[Dave242]

Flyboy may have flaws, but he rated 20 courses higher. Read his reviews, they all have double digit thumbsdown. Dave may be the only person witth quadruple digit thumbsdown, this is not just about flyboy worship.

You are upset with my reviewing style. Early on in DGCR well before it hit its stride as a place for good reviews written by well traveled reviewers, I thought I could add some value by transposing my personal ratings list into DGCR. I did it in a very short-hand way for ~150 courses.

It was well-intended....and well after that reviews by well traveled reviewers really took off here so now those reviews are less helpful than they could have been (and the unhelpful :thmbdown:'s reflect that). It was not a mistake on my part and I do not regret sharing my list here, but if I had had a crystal ball back then, I would have done things differently.

BTW, I had never really analyzed this before but only around 10% have double digit thumbs down (not "all" or even a significant amount)......I recognize hyperbole when I see it though. I do apologize that I am causing you consternation.

Since then, I have used the same rating criteria, but have filled them out with much more descriptive verbiage. I think they have been better received by readers here.

27 of the 30 double digit thumbs down reviews were written in my old short-hand style BTW, the other 3 all are from reviews were I gave honest well reasoned reviews backing up why I rated a course lower than the average.

My reviews have helped at least 1600 people (and probably many more who did not thumb me)......and if I did not write them, the 1500 who said they were unhelped by my reviews would still be unhelped by me.

With that, I am done with you prerube unless you want to talk about courses.