Do top rated courses produce the best players?

[hognosesucker]

Fine, just ignore my post...

sorry gonzo, i just scrolled through most of the thread.

look at vollroth in sheboygan...not a tough course by any means yet produced shultz and another dude that jhgonzo chimed in about. I think it's all the competition base.

fixed:thmbup:

 

[DiscGolfCraig]

I think you're looking at this the wrong way. Great players want to play great courses, which lead to more great courses built. Once those courses are built, THEN you will have new players playing these great courses, some of which will become great.

 

[optidiscic]

Spend time in the field and don't play a course every day. You get better faster, and don't have to play that tough course every day. :doh:


looking at the numbers it looks like big warm populated states have more 1000 rated players.

I don't think u got my point. A simple course places more premium on putting and is easier to play every day. Chucking plastic in a field is not something I would do every day. I've tried it. It's pretty boring and how does it help your putting or short game. I would like a fun short course that allows me to want to play it every day.

 

[Labelkills]

Brakewell steel. Warwick NY was my home course for my first 3 years of disc. And I'm pretty darn good. *wink* so yea I think so.

 

[CwAlbino]

I've played with a lot of high end players from Iowa and Mn, and I think it mostly comes down to events attended, and the fact that there is no money in dg for the players right now. I shot a 996 rated round at collegiate nationals last year, I also haven't registered for pdga in 2 years, so my current rating is 864. There's a lot of rec players in my area that would rather play leagues and just go have fun playing disc golf than paying money to get funny money back. As a college student, I don't care to pay pdga fees and enter tournaments when I'm not going to get anything out of it. I have the plastic I want, and an opportunity to win some plastic will just be $40 down the drain, and new plastic thrown in a crate that I'll probably give away later to some noob.

 

[jdggna]

I've played with a lot of high end players from Iowa and Mn, and I think it mostly comes down to events attended

/snip

I'm convinced playing lots of BIG events drives players' ratings up...A-tiers and such grab more high rated players, giving you the chance to score better (comparatively). Smaller tourneys (C-tiers) pull mostly locals and not as many highly rated players. Shooting the same score will likely produce lower ratings. Not explained the best, but you can get the picture. Obviously being a good/consistent player is important, but the final number comes down to who you're playing against.

 

[DSCJNKY]

For what its worth...
Location of PDGA 1000 rated players

California - 31
vs.
Georgia - 5
Maryland - 2
North Carolina - 12
Virginia - 2

Yeah... but, if you look at a map of the US, Cali takes up as much room as GA, SC, NC, VA, WV, MD, & DC combined. But, then again, they still have 10 more 1000 rated players that those states combined too.

DSCJNKY

 

[sloppydisc]

I'd say no. I have played a lot great courses and look at me. Come on, I play Buckhorn and UNC all the time. They are both pretty decent courses. I am still no pro. Someone said something to the effect once, that playing/practicing at a course makes you good at that course. Playing and practicing in a field just makes you good. I think there is a certain amount of truth to that. My guess is that the really good players play more and practice more whether their home turf has a bunch of great courses or not. Thus, they are better than the rest of us.

 

[Jay Dub]

Greater Cincinnati area has a lot of great courses and a wide variety of them, Idlewild is one of them. Never has a top rated player come from this area. It's been a point of discussion with me and some of my friends. We have a few that can compete now and then, but with all the courses here, Dayton and their courses close by, one would think there'd be a higher percentage of top rated players from this area.

 

[biscoe]

another factor is the time frame when dg gained a foothold in an area- cali, texico, and north cack were all well-established areas for dg prior to many others... hence more time for infrastructure/player base to grow... which leads to more high-end players.

 

[Dave242]

having top notch players to begin with perpetuates having more top notch players...raleigh is the best example of this- their courses are decent but not great but they have had an arseload of high end players over the years.

This is the key point by far. Secondarily, the naturals with the required competitive nature need good courses and good/great events to keep them interested.

 

[Jay Dub]

This is the key point by far. Secondarily, the naturals with the required competitive nature need good courses and good/great events to keep them interested.

This is more important than the type of courses. My best year when I played tournaments was when I was involved in 3 leagues a week plus the doubles on Friday night then the tournament Sat and Sunday. The steady play of competitive rounds improves the mental aspect of the game.
And we all know 90% of disc golf is 50% mental.

 

[disc gopher]

Not necessarily. Because before 2008 delaware had no "top rated", super challenging courses, but Mike Moser came from DE and he's obviously a top pro...and he'd been playing our decades-old courses for years, no top courses. So I'd argue the courses don't have all that much to do with the players that come from the area.

 

[optidiscic]

I really think it has to do with playing at a basket every day and playing competitively as much as possible. I don't have the discipline to throw in a field everyday zzzzzzzzzz or to putt at a backyard basket by myself ADD will set in fast. Just being honest and I think I speak for many here. A simple nine hole course with a premium on putts and fun factor would probably do more good as your more likely to play it more frequently. A difficult course is more a measuring stick and not a game refiner IMHO. I agree with an established scene of good players and different courses and general area knowledge as being more important.
Interesting regarding cinn. I'd bet those who master those tight lines at idlewild can't putt as well as some lowly am on an open course where putting is 3/4 of your shots opposed to idlewild where it is maybe 1/4 of the game

 

[himynameismatt]

Oregon Has 5 courses in the Top 30 IIRC. Dave Feldberg is from the Portland,OR area. So maybe there's a connection? I know there's a lot more pros in this area just can't think of any right now.

 

[Jay Dub]

I really think it has to do with playing at a basket every day and playing competitively as much as possible. I don't have the discipline to throw in a field everyday zzzzzzzzzz or to putt at a backyard basket by myself ADD will set in fast. Just being honest and I think I speak for many here. A simple nine hole course with a premium on putts and fun factor would probably do more good as your more likely to play it more frequently. A difficult course is more a measuring stick and not a game refiner IMHO. I agree with an established scene of good players and different courses and general area knowledge as being more important.
Interesting regarding cinn. I'd bet those who master those tight lines at idlewild can't putt as well as some lowly am on an open course where putting is 3/4 of your shots opposed to idlewild where it is maybe 1/4 of the game

That's another point about players around the Cinn area. There are plenty of top and med rated courses with a variety of designs, Idlewild is just one of them. Open and long, tight and short, tight and long, open and short, rolling hills or just flat. Still it does not produce a high number of players that would be considered top notch.

In the summer time we play a different course every weekend and rarely do we repeat, time permitting. Include Dayton courses and just about every type of hole design is in this area.

 

[JHern]

It is definitely true that it takes a strong, enthusiastic, energetic, and civic-minded disc golf community to even get ahold of the best properties to establish a great course, and develop the best atmosphere for cultivating the champions of tomorrow. Oftentimes this involves years of struggle, perseverance, sacrifice, hard labor, lobbying, politics, fund-raising, etc., etc.. A disc golf community with these traits is also going to have some very dedicated players who channel similar amounts of energy toward their game as they do to developing the game in their community. They are going to be taking their kids to the course to learn to play, as the community adds a new generation, and then another generation, and you can even see Grandpa, Pa, and Son all playing a round together. They are going to organize great tournaments and begin great traditions, NT-level events will begin and will never end. They are going to establish sports leagues to play disc golf competitively between schools. After a while, everyone who lives in the local community has at the very least heard about disc golf, even Grandma hobbling around in her walker. Disc golf tournaments will be shown on the local television stations. Local municipalities will feel comfortable giving over complete control of parts of their most beautiful parks to the care and diligence of the disc golf clubs. The old-timers who started everything back in the day, whose labor we now enjoy so much, pass the torch to younger folks who have the energy to carry the community to the next level. Those younger kids who were playing on the course grow up and become world champions. Other world champions will move to their community, to thrive in the best disc golf location on planet Earth. You'll play rounds of golf with 1000+ rated players, and scores more of 970+ rated players. World Champion women, masters, grandmasters, will become commonplace. You'll constantly run into folks whose names are registered in the disc golf hall of fame. And so on...

This is Santa Cruz.

 

[optidiscic]

It is definitely true that it takes a strong, enthusiastic, energetic, and civic-minded disc golf community to even get ahold of the best properties to establish a great course, and develop the best atmosphere for cultivating the champions of tomorrow. Oftentimes this involves years of struggle, perseverance, sacrifice, hard labor, lobbying, politics, fund-raising, etc., etc.. A disc golf community with these traits is also going to have some very dedicated players who channel similar amounts of energy toward their game as they do to developing the game in their community. They are going to be taking their kids to the course to learn to play, as the community adds a new generation, and then another generation, and you can even see Grandpa, Pa, and Son all playing a round together. They are going to organize great tournaments and begin great traditions, NT-level events will begin and will never end. They are going to establish sports leagues to play disc golf competitively between schools. After a while, everyone who lives in the local community has at the very least heard about disc golf, even Grandma hobbling around in her walker. Disc golf tournaments will be shown on the local television stations. Local municipalities will feel comfortable giving over complete control of parts of their most beautiful parks to the care and diligence of the disc golf clubs. The old-timers who started everything back in the day, whose labor we now enjoy so much, pass the torch to younger folks who have the energy to carry the community to the next level. Those younger kids who were playing on the course grow up and become world champions. Other world champions will move to their community, to thrive in the best disc golf location on planet Earth. You'll play rounds of golf with 1000+ rated players, and scores more of 970+ rated players. World Champion women, masters, grandmasters, will become commonplace. You'll constantly run into folks whose names are registered in the disc golf hall of fame. And so on...

This is Santa Cruz.

I love this post and I wanted to mention the father to child relationship as well......locally we have devin frederick whose father has been instrumental in the local scene for some time http://www.pdga.com/player_stats/31053/2010

Nationally I would bet there is some famileal link of generation to generation for disc golf success

Whats great about disc golf is that it can be played intergenerationally and wisdom can be passed....established scenes like Santa Cruz surely do have an advantage

 

[optidiscic]

Food for thought...

http://www.pdga.com/files/documents/Pro_Worlds_Course_SSA_98-10.pdf

Great courses and high SSAs but do they really develop better players or just spoil the locals

Yeah Nockamixon is my home course...so you can see why I want a simple course to refine my game rather than a daily beatdown...I'm jealous of you guys with multiple pitch and putts to practice on a daily basis...we just dont have anything like that around here

 

[zenbot]

I think exposure to the sport helps. SoCal courses are spread out so less kids have e opportunity to play.