Downhill Drives

[mashnut]

I have a beat *D, and I can get that beautiful S turn most of time. When it's windy (headwind) it can be hyzer flipped and if I hit it right, it will be my longest drive of the day. If I miss it, it can be a roller. I bought one of those ubber stable AJ Destroyers and it basically goes straight into the ground for me unless there is like hurricane force headwind. Can you elaborate on the bolded part. I'm not understanding the distinction you are making.

A speed stable disc is one that acts overstable at low power but has high speed turn when thrown faster. A truly overstable disc is overstable across power levels. Take a flat firebird and a destroyer for example. If you throw them both on a flat 200' shot, they'll both fade out pretty much immediately. If you put 400' of power on both, the firebird won't turn, it'll go straight then fade hard, while the destroyer will have some turn early in the flight before fading. Even though the destroyer seems like it has no turn, it's just not up to it's cruising speed. The firebird just simply doesn't have turn even when thrown at high speed.

 

[armiller]

Thread bump after some recent downhill experiences

Thread bump. I've noticed several things with downhill drives. Reading through this thread, it sounds like lots of people think it's an anhyzer release. I think that's usually wrong. I think the tendency to turn is almost entirely from the nose down angle. I've recently had some very successful throws with an ESP Surge that is usually a headwind disc for me because it's still a little too much disc for my backhand on a flat drive with no wind. When I throw it on downhill holes, it gets some decent turn and glides like crazy, and I've gotten it out to 450' or 500' easy.

Just in case any of you know these holes, here are some examples: Harmony Bends, hole 10 from White tee, and Branson Cedars Resort Treehouz DGC hole 6 pro tee (600' par 4; I managed to get a 2 with a ~100' Zone throw-in). These holes have a couple things in common. First, they require a full drive off the bat. Second, they are downhill "tunnels," in that they have a ceiling fairly close to the tee. By the way, this has bearing on downhill shots, but it also speaks to the importance of throwing discs nose down.

For me, I don't play a ton of "top of the world" shots, being that I've played much of my disc golf in Oklahoma and Florida. Nevertheless, I generally struggle with those shots, having them stall out and fade. On the several TOTW shots where I've actually succeeded, it's because I got the nose down. Those downhill tunnel shots I mentioned above had an early ceiling, and this helped me aim for the tunnel to get the trajectory right, as opposed to throwing my standard throw from a flat tee, which tends to make me not throw along that downhill line that the hole requires.

My summary, or tips for players trying to get better at downhill distance shots, is:
1) Disc up. Don't feel bad throwing that Destroyer, Nuke, or Surge, a disc that might otherwise have a little bit too much high speed turn for your arm (in other words, a little too fast or too overstable for you). I'd favor throwing something a little beefier as opposed to faster, but both might work. For the OP, maybe it would have worked to throw a beefier Roc if he/she had one available.
2) make sure you get the line right, both in terms of trajectory with respect to the ground and in terms of nose angle.
3) Remember that you consciously have to throw below the tee. Try to avoid letting your muscle memory make you throw at the same angle with respect to the tee, which is almost level (with respect to gravity) as opposed to angled to help you throw the right angle for the hole.
*Note: This is specifically for downhill distance shots. Throwing my Comet or glidey putters is also an important skill to have, but the nose angle issue is a little less important simply because they tend to hold that straight glide for longer without stalling out like incorrectly thrown drivers.*

Throwing downhill definitely makes things understable. I frequently play a course with a huge downhill that is almost always into a headwind and my destroyer flips over like an understable putter.

Here I quoted Shamis from this thread, because this is the post I agree with most. Maybe some people have an issue with subconscious anhyzer release, but I think it's far more likely the nose angle issue. If you read through the physics threads, some folks (myself included) believe that the high speed turn phase of disc flight is more because of nose angle than disc speed. If so, downhill throws thrown correctly will have more nose-down angle and can thus be expected to have more "high speed turn" than they would on flat throws. Part of this, by the way, is that gravity and aerodynamic forces will help the disc MAINTAIN its nose-down angle for longer, as opposed to throws on flat ground where the disc may start with the exact same amount of nose-down (relative to trajectory) but where the forces on the disc bring the nose up faster because of how the disc is moving with respect to gravity.

I hope this is a helpful bump, and I hope this makes sense.

 

[roggenb3]

Disc up? I would recommend discing down on big downhill shots. I play a top of the world shot daily and throw a beat G* Leo on a steep hyzer. You want something glidey like an US fairway or neutral mid/putter.

 

[armiller]

Agreed. But that's probably getting a lot of air under it. I'm thinking more of shots where you need a fairly straight or low line. If there's no ceiling, there are endless possibilities.

 

[roggenb3]

Nah, I line it right at the pin. The key is the hyzerflip. Gotta have enough hyzer so that by the time it starts moving right, its already halfway down the hill, and near the pin when it finally stops turning and gets to the gentle fade at the end.

 

[Dan Ensor]

I only hyzerflip as a last resort.


When throwing downhill, I prefer to throw a Drone on a spike hyzer. I know it's not going anywhere crazy, and I can trust my disc's stability to get it to the ground if the wind starts moving it. On downhill shots, a disc like that is dropping straight down towards the end of its flight.

I've seen some great downhill shots with understable discs. I've seen just as many farther off the fairway than down the fairway. Thankfully, a lot of the worst shots turn into rollers or skomahawks.

 

[curmudgeonDwindle]

Anyone else think that the reason for people saying 'anhyzer release' in this situation is actually because they want a high-to-low swing plane and don't quite know how to express that properly?

That was my first thought about the subject anyway...

My other thought was to visualize throwing down the hypotenuse of a right triangle, with the tee and hole being the hypotenuse's end points; imagining it this way gets one very close to a proper nose-tail angle (at least in your head).

 

[New013]

Uphill throws, less stable disc

Downhill throws, more stable disc

 

[BogeyNoMore]

I'd say it depends on how much room you have to work and how severe the penalty is if things go wrong. If I need a tighter line, I'll, more likely to go with something a bit faster and more OS, and throw hard of a flat release roughly parallel to the slope.

If there's more room to work I'd be more likely to try Rogen's hyzerflip, and I'm putting some air beneath it to make sure it has the opportunity fade.

Wind would also factor into things. On a downhill bomb, your disc is in the air quite a bit longer than most shots, so the wind gets to work on it longer. If there's even a hint of headwind, nothing remotely flippy is coming outta my bag.

 

[ToddL]

I like to throw neutrally stable discs downhill. I'd rather throw an x/x/0/0 disc (Mako) than an x/x/-1/3 disc (Destroyer). Depending on how steep the hill is, your disc will continue flying at a high speed or even accelerate as it goes down the hill. Your Destroyers that typically turn over for the first 100' of a flat throw will end up turning for the entire flight on a downhill throw. My Mako3s fly straight at low speed and fly straight at high speed (the /0/0 part of the flight numbers), so they'll continue flying straight even if they accelerated down the hill.

Katana - unpredictably terrible
Destroyer - mostly unpredictable
Firebird - predictable but not long
Mako - long, straight, slow glide

 

[skurf]

Dang, is this the hole? That looks tough. If I was feeling irie I'd throw an S-PD on a slight anhyzer low and hard and hope for a skip to the basket after the tunnel. Most other times I'd probably throw a Buzzz flat or a Fuse on a hyzer-flip. I'm just not sure how close the basket I could make it with these with that hard left hook at the end.

How long does this disc need to go straight before it can fade to the left?

 

[sidewinder22]

Hmm... probably tomahawk a Firebird.

 

[rhatton1]

Thread bump. I've noticed several things with downhill drives. Reading through this thread, it sounds like lots of people think it's an anhyzer release. I think that's usually wrong. I think the tendency to turn is almost entirely from the nose down angle. I've recently had some very successful throws with an ESP Surge that is usually a headwind disc for me because it's still a little too much disc for my backhand on a flat drive with no wind. When I throw it on downhill holes, it gets some decent turn and glides like crazy, and I've gotten it out to 450' or 500' easy.
.

Throwing downhill the discs will act more understable so I normally either hyzer flip from an extreme hyzer (my preferred for when it is open -easier to keep the nose down as well) or throw something more stable/overstable and really concentrate on throwing down and keeping the nose down (more likely to use this in a tighter downhill shot)

Interested to hear how you got on at hole 15 at Bedworth. It tends to throw people off because the last meter of the teeing area is slightly uphill whilst throwing downhill, so many people stall their drive out as a result and it's rarely two'd ( I tee off from about 2 meters back of the tee post which makes it much easier to throw down the slope and keep a slow turning hyzerflip all the way to the basket so pick up quite a few two's here, one day I'll ace that hole...)

 

[armiller]

Interested to hear how you got on at hole 15 at Bedworth. It tends to throw people off because the last meter of the teeing area is slightly uphill whilst throwing downhill, so many people stall their drive out as a result and it's rarely two'd ( I tee off from about 2 meters back of the tee post which makes it much easier to throw down the slope and keep a slow turning hyzerflip all the way to the basket so pick up quite a few two's here, one day I'll ace that hole...)

I remember the hole but not the tee. I threw 4 or 5 discs, and I tried to put on a show for a father with his 2yo daughter in a buggy/stroller who stopped to watch. I believe I threw a Comet and Buzzz backhand, as well as a Teebird and Wraith forehand. In my trimmed-down travel bag, that was most of what I had available. I think the Buzzz and Comet were the best but I didn't get a 2 from either. If I had it to do over, I think a well-thrown nose-down RHBH Buzzz would be my best option. Since the beginning is so open, but there are late trees, I'd like to try to get some early turn for some left-to-right motion through the trees and toward the basket.