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S-posture or Anterior Pelvic Tilt:
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Drive Leg Mechanics
- Thread starter sidewinder22
- Start date
seedlings
* Ace Member *
Talks about staying low then pushing legs up during the throw. 700' Destroyers though.
I will say that maybe I do, maybe I don't 'see' him push up because his front knee stays bent. Subtle?
I will say that maybe I do, maybe I don't 'see' him push up because his front knee stays bent. Subtle?
He is pushing against the front leg collapsing. So yea, it's subtle when watching him do it, but I am certain it doesn't feel subtle at all.
Imagine jumping on a trampoline. When you land you resist your legs from collapsing and you push of in the same motion. The legs are then extending when you've done almost all your pushing with them. Extending your legs is basically a "follow through" of the legs pushing. You don't need much more then for the momentum to brace against the ground. A "one-inch-punch" against the ground with the front foot already at contact with the ground will make for a lot of fast and explosive power. No big movements necessary.
Yes, I think you can see the push against the collapse. If he was just remaining bent and "absorbing" all that momentum (and he takes a big run-up!), I bet he would topple over more, and his knee would bend more.
It does look like he goes over the top a bit; obviously with that much momentum it's harder to stop. But results don't lie, that's some amazing distance.
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Forces happen before we see motion happen. Head starts rising when heel plants. Front leg straight at release.
seedlings
* Ace Member *
Forces happen before we see motion happen. Head starts rising when heel plants. Front leg straight at release.
Screenshots and MS paint - I should have thought of that! So question? Are a lot of you thinking "stay low" during the backswing? I'm thinking "stay over toes" or "don't screw this up".
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Kristian didn't say to "stay low", but "dropping lower" to leverage/spring forward. Think of your legs as springs or pogo sticks against the ground.
Lastchancer88
Birdie Member
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Forces happen before we see motion happen. Head starts rising when heel plants. Front leg straight at release.
The three upper right frames really reinforce that idea that if your plant leg disappeared, you would end up falling on your butt going targetward (loading the bow and arrow).
Also, if there was a chair on the teepad he almost sits in it midthrow. His femur is almost parallel to the ground. Lotta drive/transfer/bracing against happening from there to the release frames where it's almost straight and flipped over.
RyanRehberg535
Par Member
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Made my wife practice this with me tonight. She thought I was being romantic at first but we got a good laugh out of it. I bet that teacher in the video could rip a disc.
We've both done a good amount of dancing so it came pretty natural, but the kicker was trying to flip it around and do it in reverse like a RHBH (she had it easy because the follower does move the direction of a RHBH). Mirroring the motion back and forth made it a lot easier to find the feel, so I got the idea to mess around in my socks on the kitchen floor like this pitching drill but mirroring pitching leg kick/drive back and forth, both directions. Basically riding the bull and double dragon combined on steroids:
I think this is a great way for people who have played throwing heavy sports, especially pitchers, to feel how "the move" should feel. It could work for any swinging sport, really, like the swing drills w/ a golf club, or a hockey stick, bowling ball, tennis racquet, etc. I'd love to invest in a slide board but I think you can get the gist of it in socks on a slippery floor. Looks like those things are expensive :gross:
Need to put in a question after watched that distance video of staying low.
My xstep starting to be sloppy again and im falling over forward rotating on the toes kinde forget the weight shift from behind thing.
Not sure if i swing back to early or late.. but like what he said in the video disc stays with the rear leg keeps me thinking that i focus to much of the backswing and thats why its so hard with the timing..
Do you guys focusing to swing back with the arm or turning the shoulders or do they do that as a byproduct of pushing with rear instep/left buttcheek forward since the hips seems to turn by doing that? when i do that at home i can feel my shoulders turning at the same time while shifting the weight but not more then 9 a clock.
If thats the case do you have to focus the shoulder get the arm more straight after they turned to 9 to like 8 a clock instead? if u want that extra power ofc.
So in a xstep is the order like this:
When rear foot cross your front you have the disc in the middle of the chest and wait for pressure in rear leg weight to be infront of the rear leg then you push your lower spine/butt forward and shoulders turn at the same time then when the arm is almost straight and shoulders at like 9:30 your focus turning them a bit more right while the plant toes hit the ground then push the hips more forward so the heel goes down and the arm swinging forward or should your weight already been on the front leg and just focus put the heel down?
Lots of questions in one
My xstep starting to be sloppy again and im falling over forward rotating on the toes kinde forget the weight shift from behind thing.
Not sure if i swing back to early or late.. but like what he said in the video disc stays with the rear leg keeps me thinking that i focus to much of the backswing and thats why its so hard with the timing..
Do you guys focusing to swing back with the arm or turning the shoulders or do they do that as a byproduct of pushing with rear instep/left buttcheek forward since the hips seems to turn by doing that? when i do that at home i can feel my shoulders turning at the same time while shifting the weight but not more then 9 a clock.
If thats the case do you have to focus the shoulder get the arm more straight after they turned to 9 to like 8 a clock instead? if u want that extra power ofc.
So in a xstep is the order like this:
When rear foot cross your front you have the disc in the middle of the chest and wait for pressure in rear leg weight to be infront of the rear leg then you push your lower spine/butt forward and shoulders turn at the same time then when the arm is almost straight and shoulders at like 9:30 your focus turning them a bit more right while the plant toes hit the ground then push the hips more forward so the heel goes down and the arm swinging forward or should your weight already been on the front leg and just focus put the heel down?
Lots of questions in one
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Need to put in a question after watched that distance video of staying low.
My xstep starting to be sloppy again and im falling over forward rotating on the toes kinde forget the weight shift from behind thing.
Not sure if i swing back to early or late.. but like what he said in the video disc stays with the rear leg keeps me thinking that i focus to much of the backswing and thats why its so hard with the timing..
Do you guys focusing to swing back with the arm or turning the shoulders or do they do that as a byproduct of pushing with rear instep/left buttcheek forward since the hips seems to turn by doing that? when i do that at home i can feel my shoulders turning at the same time while shifting the weight but not more then 9 a clock.
If thats the case do you have to focus the shoulder get the arm more straight after they turned to 9 to like 8 a clock instead? if u want that extra power ofc.
So in a xstep is the order like this:
When rear foot cross your front you have the disc in the middle of the chest and wait for pressure in rear leg weight to be infront of the rear leg then you push your lower spine/butt forward and shoulders turn at the same time then when the arm is almost straight and shoulders at like 9:30 your focus turning them a bit more right while the plant toes hit the ground then push the hips more forward so the heel goes down and the arm swinging forward or should your weight already been on the front leg and just focus put the heel down?
Lots of questions in one
He didn't say "staying low". Getting lower striding into the plant from a taller x-step. The x-step is much easier and efficient when you stay taller. It takes a hell of an athlete to crouch real low during the x-step.
How would you swing a sledgehammer back while x-stepping? Which is very similar to "working around the disc" or keeping the disc in place.
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There have been a lot of players on the course in the last year crouching low in the X Step and then rising into the plant instead of going high low high, they are rising up as they plant instead of dropping down and losing so much as a result. I can't work out where it came from but seems to be a current trend amongst newer players, I would assume there is some video somewhere probably with a bit of spinning and throwing advice in there too that is advocating it. . That drop into the plant is such an easy timing mechanism to build around as well.
Nick Pacific
Eagle Member
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- Jan 18, 2013
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If you're falling forward and toe spinning I can guarantee you're coming through too fast, especially during the first half of your throw. You gotta slow things down a tad.
https://www.dgcoursereview.com/forums/showthread.php?t=112483
Yes you are probebly right!
Im starting the runup with left foot first then right/cross/plant and trying to bring speed right from the start with a slithly push off with left foot. Sometimes tho it works to plant correct and spin on heel but most of the time it doesnt, not sure how to brace better going faster. Easier to plant on course with a short teepad when having a small slower xstep but then i dont rotate shoulders enough etc for the distance needed. I see alot of players run up even faster then me and bombing. I have hitted 435-450 in some rare throws and those are probebly with speed+heel spin but not sure. Will try with a slower x-step next session
Nick Pacific
Eagle Member
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Check out the video and thread I posted above. For a lot of people that I see (and I did the same thing for years) they run up and pull through way too fast initially and their momentum is coming through the hit with so much speed and force that they blow through the hit, their brace and lose all of the weight shift and tilt forward and toe spin.
Look at how slow Drew Gibson goes through his X step, and he is throwing farther than everyone right now, at what, 5'7 or so? He's got that timing down perfectly. You don't need to run up fast, it only makes things harder. Same with Eagle really, he doesn't even hop, he basically walks into his throw. Again, timing and bracing, that is the magic sauce.
Look at how slow Drew Gibson goes through his X step, and he is throwing farther than everyone right now, at what, 5'7 or so? He's got that timing down perfectly. You don't need to run up fast, it only makes things harder. Same with Eagle really, he doesn't even hop, he basically walks into his throw. Again, timing and bracing, that is the magic sauce.
Brychanus
* Ace Member *
Was just watching new Jomez coverage and was interested to see Earhart still has this heel slam/slide. Now that I've started to learn to load the drive leg higher on the ball of the foot, I'm surprised he gets the extension and distance that he does despite pushing from the heel. Maybe he's so adapted to it that the rest of his body is making do, but I can't imagine he's getting the consistency or distance he would with 3X.
Attachments
Brychanus
* Ace Member *
A pro case of getting stuck over the rubber?
I was looking for instances of "free-wheeling" form from pros earlier in their career. SW22 has gotten my eye to look out for getting "stuck over the rubber": losing momentum with weight trapped behind/over the drive leg and a less than ideal weight transfer. In my own journey I've gotten more interested in how bodies get hurt or compensate for form issues. I wondered if this is an interesting case.
Cale Leiviska is often mentioned to have smooth form ("Dr. Smooth"). I noticed a throw from 2012 where he has a knee brace on his drive leg, so I looked at his lower body mechanics. Correct me if I'm wrong, but it looks like he's "stuck over the rubber." If you go frame by frame, there's a bit of a heavy loading on his back leg that appears to transfer weight late into the plant. Attached a few screen grabs. Cale's leg is internally rotating while the ball of his drive foot is relatively flat on the ground, and it looks like his butt isn't quite as far ahead to lead the throw. At the plant, Paul has his weight fully transferred and his foot fully everted. You can also see that Cale's upper body is significantly rotated forward and toward his plant leg relative to Paul, which might be compensating for Cale's lagging lower body weight and how he follows through.
Cale's still throwing and he hasn't blown out that drive knee as far as I know. I might be seeing shadows, so I thought I'd mention this case study if more experienced eyes wanted to weigh in!
Vid sources:
2012
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bh_O955VgBU&ab_channel=CentralCoastDiscGolf
2017
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fpuu8DfGHOI&ab_channel=rdmnks
2020
https://www.reddit.com/r/discgolf/comments/hq87j0/slowmotion_form_check_featuring_james_conrad/
McBeth 2017
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AwYvav4xCR8&ab_channel=Michael
I was looking for instances of "free-wheeling" form from pros earlier in their career. SW22 has gotten my eye to look out for getting "stuck over the rubber": losing momentum with weight trapped behind/over the drive leg and a less than ideal weight transfer. In my own journey I've gotten more interested in how bodies get hurt or compensate for form issues. I wondered if this is an interesting case.
Cale Leiviska is often mentioned to have smooth form ("Dr. Smooth"). I noticed a throw from 2012 where he has a knee brace on his drive leg, so I looked at his lower body mechanics. Correct me if I'm wrong, but it looks like he's "stuck over the rubber." If you go frame by frame, there's a bit of a heavy loading on his back leg that appears to transfer weight late into the plant. Attached a few screen grabs. Cale's leg is internally rotating while the ball of his drive foot is relatively flat on the ground, and it looks like his butt isn't quite as far ahead to lead the throw. At the plant, Paul has his weight fully transferred and his foot fully everted. You can also see that Cale's upper body is significantly rotated forward and toward his plant leg relative to Paul, which might be compensating for Cale's lagging lower body weight and how he follows through.
Cale's still throwing and he hasn't blown out that drive knee as far as I know. I might be seeing shadows, so I thought I'd mention this case study if more experienced eyes wanted to weigh in!
Vid sources:
2012
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bh_O955VgBU&ab_channel=CentralCoastDiscGolf
2017
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fpuu8DfGHOI&ab_channel=rdmnks
2020
https://www.reddit.com/r/discgolf/comments/hq87j0/slowmotion_form_check_featuring_james_conrad/
McBeth 2017
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AwYvav4xCR8&ab_channel=Michael
