Driving struggles

[Cbajuk]

My first post on this forum!
For me, Im a newer player to disc golf, but I've seen a decent amount of improvement in my RHBH in the past few months. I started by using the Innova shark as well as the MVP axis, and love my midrange discs and game. However, driving always seems to be my fault. I'm either not getting enough power on my drives, or completely hooking my shots left towards the end of flight. The driver I use currently (mvp octane) also seems to enjoy taking a sharp left turn for me. Any advice to avoid sharp left hooks, or better control a 13 speed disc on drives?

 

[knivvves]

How far are you throwing? There's a rough equation to figure out what the top speed disc you should use is - take your max distance in feet divided by 35. So if you only throw 300', 300/35=8.57, which means you should only throw a speed 8 or 9 at most.

When you throw discs that are too high speed for you, they act more overstable (turn left).

 

[Innova63]

How far are you throwing? There's a rough equation to figure out what the top speed disc you should use is - take your max distance in feet divided by 35. So if you only throw 300', 300/35=8.57, which means you should only throw a speed 8 or 9 at most.

When you throw discs that are too high speed for you, they act more overstable (turn left).

Okay
I have never heard of this equation...

Have I been missing something all these years?

 

[knivvves]

Have I been missing something all these years?

Don't know, I'm just a beginner, but I've seen that on both DGCR and r/discgolf. And it feels pretty accurate for myself and others I know personally. How accurate do you think it is for yourself?

 

[BillFleming]

I don't know about that calculation. It seems to take in what distance a pro throws a disc or how far a disc is designed to go....not how well a player throws. An 8 speed disc 'should' go 300 feet, but that doesn't mean the player can actually throw it that far. For example, I'm 60 years old, been playing for 1 and 1/2 years and don't have a really long throw. My max distance is about 240-ish right now. My 8 speed Dynamic Disc Witness goes about 220-ish. So by the calculation, I should be throwing a 7 speed and no more. But it is my 9 speed discs that I get out to 240. If I throw a 7 speed, I'm getting about 200-ish. So should I throw 7 speed or less? No, if I do, I lose around 40 feet of distance.

 

[disco40]

I don't know about that calculation. It seems to take in what distance a pro throws a disc or how far a disc is designed to go....not how well a player throws. An 8 speed disc 'should' go 300 feet, but that doesn't mean the player can actually throw it that far. For example, I'm 60 years old, been playing for 1 and 1/2 years and don't have a really long throw. My max distance is about 240-ish right now. My 8 speed Dynamic Disc Witness goes about 220-ish. So by the calculation, I should be throwing a 7 speed and no more. But it is my 9 speed discs that I get out to 240. If I throw a 7 speed, I'm getting about 200-ish. So should I throw 7 speed or less? No, if I do, I lose around 40 feet of distance.

This makes a lot more sense than a formula. I will say that the formula applies to me pretty well, but I'm still above or below "my number" way more than I'm throwing a disc with that number, because sometimes I want more distance and sometimes I want more accuracy. I don't often want a "middle ground" amount of power and accuracy.

 

[Rastnav]

I don't know about that calculation. It seems to take in what distance a pro throws a disc or how far a disc is designed to go....not how well a player throws. An 8 speed disc 'should' go 300 feet, but that doesn't mean the player can actually throw it that far. For example, I'm 60 years old, been playing for 1 and 1/2 years and don't have a really long throw. My max distance is about 240-ish right now. My 8 speed Dynamic Disc Witness goes about 220-ish. So by the calculation, I should be throwing a 7 speed and no more. But it is my 9 speed discs that I get out to 240. If I throw a 7 speed, I'm getting about 200-ish. So should I throw 7 speed or less? No, if I do, I lose around 40 feet of distance.

Just out of curiosity, how far do you throw your putters? What if you throw them standstill?

I ask because my max is somewhere in the 230-240 range (with a PB of 260 that I actually threw today), and what amazes me is that the spread between my putters and my speed 7 discs so close as to be to nonexistent. I can throw a putter about 200, and a mid about 215, and a fairway driver about 230.

It doesn't feel like it "should" be that way, especially because my standstill putter goes about 170 180..

 

[BillFleming]

Just out of curiosity, how far do you throw your putters? What if you throw them standstill?

I ask because my max is somewhere in the 230-240 range (with a PB of 260 that I actually threw today), and what amazes me is that the spread between my putters and my speed 7 discs so close as to be to nonexistent. I can throw a putter about 200, and a mid about 215, and a fairway driver about 230.

It doesn't feel like it "should" be that way, especially because my standstill putter goes about 170 180..

Right now, I only throw backhand from a standstill - that's bad enough (I got the nickname Wild Bill due to my backhand throws). I get my putter around 150. My other throws are mainly forehand (I just cannot forehand a putter, no matter how much I try) - and I can do a walk-up when I throw forehand. But, yes, my distances are pretty close together for the most part. That's one reason I don't carry every speed of disc...I'm carrying two 9 speeds (one for forehand, one for backhand), two 7 speeds (one fh, one bh), one 5 speed (good for both fh & bh), one 3 speed (putt/approach - for forehand), and one putter (can only throw it bh). That combination covers my options so that I SHOULD be able to make par on every hole (doesn't happen, but that isn't due to my disc options).

 

[-boon-]

Another noob here so take this with a grain of salt. From what I've read and looked into for myself, if all your disc are going the same distance when throwing them theoretically the same power and same way, you are throwing nose up. When nose up the disc shape doesnt really have huge impacts on the flight of the disc because most of the air is hitting the bottom plate and back rim in flight. I think Danny describes it pretty well here

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=slflOXhhonE

I find if i throw a driver nose up, at the end of the flight I see the top of the disc as it dives left (RHBH). For now I normally practice with putters and mids though but on the coarse this week I broke out my valkerie/leopard3 and had some good success after tons of field practice with mids/putts.

 

[Rastnav]

...
I think Danny describes it pretty well here

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=slflOXhhonE
...

I know both OAT and nose-up are big problems for me, and high reach back and "dip" is definitely a big contributor.

But every time I try and just finish "high" I just end up throwing a weak spike-hyzer. I know sidewinder22 hasn't said anything about nose angle yet in my form thread. At least for me (I'm not OP), I've got to walk before I can run, or something.

I think nose-down will (I hope) naturally come from just improving over all form, rather than just working on it (and not other things). I dunno, maybe that's not helpful, but it's how I'm trying to think about it.

 

[JuanA]

I know both OAT and nose-up are big problems for me, and high reach back and "dip" is definitely a big contributor.

But every time I try and just finish "high" I just end up throwing a weak spike-hyzer..

My first thought when I read this is what does your grip look like?

If you spike hyzer when finishing high, your grip may be putting you into a nose-up attitude, and that may be why you currently have to reach back high and dip. Are you air-bouncing the disc to keep it low?

 

[Rastnav]

My first thought when I read this is what does your grip look like?

If you spike hyzer when finishing high, your grip may be putting you into a nose-up attitude, and that may be why you currently have to reach back high and dip. Are you air-bouncing the disc to keep it low?

You can look at the post I linked earlier to see video of my form. I think my grip is probably the least of my issues right now. It's 3 fingers of a power grip (pinky left out) seated in the crease of my hand. I'm not intentionally air bouncing, but I'm sure there is a fair amount of it.

 

[Casey 1988]

I don't know about that calculation. It seems to take in what distance a pro throws a disc or how far a disc is designed to go....not how well a player throws. An 8 speed disc 'should' go 300 feet, but that doesn't mean the player can actually throw it that far. For example, I'm 60 years old, been playing for 1 and 1/2 years and don't have a really long throw. My max distance is about 240-ish right now. My 8 speed Dynamic Disc Witness goes about 220-ish. So by the calculation, I should be throwing a 7 speed and no more. But it is my 9 speed discs that I get out to 240. If I throw a 7 speed, I'm getting about 200-ish. So should I throw 7 speed or less? No, if I do, I lose around 40 feet of distance.

Same, I get my Stalker or ESP XL out to 240-245 feet and my Valkyrie discs out to about 270-275 feet for the almost flat top Star and glow Champion out to 275-280 feet. So yeah I loose Distance too. The good Champion Destroyer I get out max of 235-240 feet but here I am using the good and beefy Champion Destroyers for more wind fighting discs. I have recently got Archon both Star domed and dud Champion with the dome to flat top stating on the top where the middle of the wing is below but thanks to the Corona Virus I have yet to use it on a course. The Star Archon I did use in field work and got about the same as my Champion Valkyrie well the Champion Archon was low dome garbage and got the low side of my Star Valkyrie about 170 feet at best with a 160-170 feet for the Champion Archon.

I probably should not have the Destroyers but those discs are is more for strong winds. The reason with the math
knivvves uses says I should use a 7-8 speed but I use 9 speed and for top distance with all but the DX Dragon in calm or tailwind (open hole due to the type of DX being garbage) do the lower speed 7-8 discs get less distance then 9 speed Valkyrie or the 11 speed Archon, 10 speed would be nice but the deep rim of the Beast makes that mold hard to use for me. The DX Dragon is only due to weight getting more distance then Valkyrie/Archon and that is due to the DX Dragon being sold at only 149-150 grams.

 

[BillFleming]

In my short time playing (since mid-Jan 2019), one of the things I've learned is ignore the stats on how far a disc is expected to go. That is for a perfect throw, which most players can't achieve. Instead, learn how the disc works for you and then apply that knowledge to other discs.

For example, I know my Innova Sidewinder (9/5/-3/1) thrown RHBH should go to the right a bit and then back left ending up about 375. RHFH it should have the opposite flight (in my understanding) left a bit and ending up right. For me, I throw it RHFH, it goes a bit left and then curves back right, ending up about 250ish. Keeping that in mind, I know other 9 speeds should get about 250 for me, not 375. Should I quit using it since I can't get it out to 375? No way...I need this disc as it gets me out to a distance I can't reach with slower speed discs. I can also expect an 8 speed disc to go about 230ish. I can also expect any -3 turn/1 fade disc to have the same flight path as my Sidewinder - maybe not as far depending on glide...but similar. And that is for ME, not anyone else because no one else throws like I do.

So learn how discs work for you and if that means a 15 speed overstable disc gets you the shot you need, but only goes 325 (or whatever distance), who cares that it SHOULD go over 400 feet? It works for you and does what you need. That is all that matters.

 

[thrembo]

I have been playing for a decent amount of time but have never been good at distance throws. I have always stood there and marveled at folks that could effortlessly walk up to the tee and honk off a 450' drive. Some people are just naturals but most of us struggle with it. A lot of it comes from differentiating from playing catch frisbee and throwing a golf disc far. So for pretty much the first time in my life I am working on the mechanics of throwing a disc far or farther anyway. Most people can armstrong a disc out to 300' or so and having a good arm throw is essential for technical throws. But for distance you have to get your body mass into the throw. Work the hips etc. I'm no expert, but I'm learning. The results have been pretty dramatic as I have bested my best drives on several holes now. I have also started going for the basket instead of laying up generally and hit basket 5 times yesterday from 50-100'out! It has made my whole game better and even my putting has improved with my new found confidence. So even though I have been playing less (stupid pandemic) watching videos and studying theory has really helped me out. Study the mechanics of the throw and get out to a field and practice. Try to develop a few different throws and always remember, have fun!