[Innova] Firebird - no longer the king?

[tirepizza]

Firebirds these days just ain't the old opaque faf's. If you want that, buy a flare. I still love firebirds and personally dont have a ton of use for something that overstable. I bag a couple of various stability firebirds and an xcal for that crazy beefy skip play. I keep a flare in my smaller bag where I don't bag a super overstable fast disc. Overstable stuff is fun. The marwedes from last year were almost perfect stability for me right out of the box

 

[Three Putt]

This has always been my problem with Innova. Run to run, they can be very inconsistent. I think the problem is exacerbated more with the current market and everything selling out constantly. It seems manufacturers aren't taking time to ensure proper molding/cooling, and just rushing discs out as fast as they can.

But, yeah, to me, the Firebird has never been the king. I used to love the XXX for that shot, but more recently moved to a Fireball.

I don't think the Firebird issue is inconsistency. Firebirds were domey and less meathookish for several years in the late 00's. When Dave D was asked about it, it was by design. Most people can't throw meathooks and they were deliberately taking some beef out of the Firebird to make it more manageable. He seemed genuinely surprised that people wanted flat Firebirds, but they went back to making them that way.

Once Sexton Firebirds were a thing and popular, that was probably all the prodding Innova needed to go back to taking beef out of the regular production Firebirds. I mean the Sextons sell out as soon as they hit the website, so people must want a less beefy Firebird and a less beefy Firebird is the disc Innova wants to be selling so...

Prolly what they should do is make sure Champ Firebirds are flat and let the Star and GStar Firebirds be domey. Best of both Worlds?

 

[Neil_Rankin]

I think the "unworkably so" is the overstable these torque monkeys are looking for. :|

Not that I'm judging or anything. Everybody loves a meathook some days.

I have a few Firebirds and I like the mold a lot. I bag a Sexton and a beat-up domey 12x. I also have a FAF Champion in stiff Jolly Launcher plastic that I do not bag. Overhand, forehand, backhand, forehand rollers, skip shot, headwind. All of these shots are filled as well or usually better with my "less overstable" Firebirds. I honestly don't get the appeal and I think the release of hyper overstable discs like the Tilt are 100% gimmick.

 

[Three Putt]

I have a few Firebirds and I like the mold a lot. I bag a Sexton and a beat-up domey 12x. I also have a FAF Champion in stiff Jolly Launcher plastic that I do not bag. Overhand, forehand, backhand, forehand rollers, skip shot, headwind. All of these shots are filled as well or usually better with my "less overstable" Firebirds. I honestly don't get the appeal and I think the release of hyper overstable discs like the Tilt are 100% gimmick.

Oh, I get it. I can't use them, but I get it. If I could could go out and crush spike hyzers over everything all day, I would. It would make life a lot easier. I just can't so I make fun of the guys that do like they are doing something wrong..."real men throw between the trees, not over them." :| Yeah, right. I'm just jealous.

 

[Neil_Rankin]

Oh, I get it. I can't use them, but I get it. If I could could go out and crush spike hyzers over everything all day, I would. It would make life a lot easier. I just can't so I make fun of the guys that do like they are doing something wrong..."real men throw between the trees, not over them." :| Yeah, right. I'm just jealous.

I guess they could be better at spike hyzers maybe? I wonder how many throws in a major tournament are made by pros with one of these hyper overstable discs.

 

[elmexdela]

I don't think the Firebird issue is inconsistency. Firebirds were domey and less meathookish for several years in the late 00's. When Dave D was asked about it, it was by design. Most people can't throw meathooks and they were deliberately taking some beef out of the Firebird to make it more manageable. He seemed genuinely surprised that people wanted flat Firebirds, but they went back to making them that way.

Once Sexton Firebirds were a thing and popular, that was probably all the prodding Innova needed to go back to taking beef out of the regular production Firebirds. I mean the Sextons sell out as soon as they hit the website, so people must want a less beefy Firebird and a less beefy Firebird is the disc Innova wants to be selling so...

Prolly what they should do is make sure Champ Firebirds are flat and let the Star and GStar Firebirds be domey. Best of both Worlds?

i thought people just hoarded and flipped the sexybird

i didnt know people actually threw them

 

[ian.w]

Once Sexton Firebirds were a thing and popular, that was probably all the prodding Innova needed to go back to taking beef out of the regular production Firebirds. I mean the Sextons sell out as soon as they hit the website, so people must want a less beefy Firebird and a less beefy Firebird is the disc Innova wants to be selling so...

Prolly what they should do is make sure Champ Firebirds are flat and let the Star and GStar Firebirds be domey. Best of both Worlds?

I'm old and can't throw far, and what I want is a flat firebird that flies like a domey firebird. I haven't thrown a flat 11x in probably 7-8 years so I have probably forgotten how overstable they actually are. I have a couple sextons that are still pretty beef for me. What I bag however is a flat raptor that is fairly broken in. People say they are less stable than firebirds but they're all kinda the same for me. My favorite firebird is a semi flat champ that weighs 167. It's the most fun to throw but doesn't hold up with my bad forehands in a headwind. It goes the straightest and furthest otherwise.

 

[twistedraven]

A lot of people love throwing Sexton Firebirds. Not only is it the mellower flight, but the grip and gumminess of the color glow plastic feels great in the hand.

 

[Neil_Rankin]

i thought people just hoarded and flipped the sexybird

i didnt know people actually threw them

Innova produced so many of them in '21 that they're very easy to find these days for about 35 bucks. Why let the scalpers realize all of that capital when they could have it for themselves?

 

[R-Ogre]

A lot of people love throwing Sexton Firebirds. Not only is it the mellower flight, but the grip and gumminess of the color glow plastic feels great in the hand.

Current champ plastic just blows IMO. Unless you're only playing in 80°+ it's too hard and slippery, the colors suck and when you do get a good one it will fade in a year, and everything molds up domey and OS. Color glow takes care of most of those problems without sacrificing much durability.

 

[wims]

I feel like color glow has quite low durability, worse than star IMO

 

[twistedraven]

The color glow Barela Teebird3 has seen heavily usage over the past 6-7 months. It's seen lots of tree hits, rock skips, and hard landings, and I probably average around 5-8 full rounds per week. The plastic itself has held up really well, but the flight has definitely went from 0/2 to -1/1 over that time period. I eventually did want it to be a -1/1, but I hope it can hold that -1/1 for at least a year or two.

 

[oldmandiscer]

I feel like color glow has quite low durability, worse than star IMO

I don't think so. I think it's not quite as durable as regular champ but still better than star. I've got a few CG discs I bag regularly.

 

[VictorB]

I have always found the super flat firebirds to be unusable trash, honestly. Tried them but never had them in my bag for long. High speed overstability is overrated. Even flat top big z raptors, enemys, and FD3s are in this category (and sounds like the flare would be also)

I may be biased now after many years of experimenting, but the good old predator has more than plenty overstability for me. And I still use stuff like QOLF, C-PD, Vulture etc quite a bit more for most overstable work

 

[autocrosscrx]

I really like my champ Firebirds, but the only other disc that I've tried in the category is a board flat original H1. And it is WAY too overstable to be useable for me.

 

[oldmandiscer]

So Flex shots, OH's, FH rollers, 35+ mph headwind approaches. I find super beef plenty useful (FAF FB).

 

[@CD-]

I'm guessing Innova tries to not make all FB flat & completely glide-less though the majority of FB will still be that way for the slower arm speed players. Some special runs might be intentionally made to meet the specific 'super OS' needs of certain players so stock up while they are available. Like the way they made ROG & glow flat Factory store gators in the past.

I have a single flat luster FB from a few years back that probably meets the OP's expectations. I'd put the flight numbers at 9/2/0/4+ which makes it a bit off profile for a FB. I only bag it for the windiest rounds and even then its not getting a ton of use. Overhand shots are not part of my game so good luck finding the perfect mold to suit your needs.

 

[discerdoo]

I have always found the super flat firebirds to be unusable trash

I may be biased

Nah, not biased at all.

Newsflash - people that bag flat Firebirds probably aren't looking for much glide. To each their own, I think a Firebird with dome is an abomination.

 

[ILUVSMGS18]

I carry a pair of Raptors (I do have some FBs as backups/alternatives) one is flat and glideless while the other has a small dome and is my workhorse. The flat ones are better for rollers/overhands/utility work.

 

[rusch_bag]

I used to be a flat firebird guy, but I have grown into liking the more mellow ones. Once I started using firebirds that actually wanted to fly, they really became the workhorse of my bag. I don't even carry a teebird most of the time anymore, because I trust the firebird more and the TL3 is better for straight shots.