Form Check/update

[sidewinder22]

Thanks, yeah these are just screen grabs from the earlier video I posted. I do feel a lot of tension in the rear leg in the deeper version. I think I read SW say somewhere that if you pick your rear foot off the ground and let it hang, the angle at which it naturally hangs is a good rule of thumb. I may experiment with opening it up some.

As far as "maintaining leverage" goes, I kind of know what it means and it makes sense why one should maintain leverage, but I have no benchmarks or telltales for how to know when leverage is maintained or not.

I was about to say, you didn't change your stance at all. Yes, start in neutral/hanging foot, you want the whole rear leg/hip/knee/ankle/foot in neutral joint alignment and maintain dynamic stack(also mirrored on plant leg). Your rear leg is twisted up out of joint alignment and dynamic stack with the rear foot turned too targetward.

Maintaining leverage, means you can accelerate and tug of war with your butt/weight targetward from the rear foot at all times.

 

[Lumberjack504]

Rough day in the field yesterday - back to some old habits I'm afraid. Drifting left, releasing right, no rear leg counter, also weird off-arm stuff during the backswing. Probably more as well that I'm not seeing.

Any ideas of what could be a root cause? I know when I x-hop, I stride laterally better and get rear leg counter so I may try to pronounce my hop more next session and see what happens.

 

[sidewinder22]

You need to get upright balanced on your rear leg in the stride, so you can accelerate off it. You are just going around the rear leg at one speed. I'd recommend working on standstill/Hershyzer and windup and stride exactly like a pitcher does, but plant closed. Note how pitchers start upright and windup really slow and super balanced on rear leg and then squat and push butt targetward. You need to feel that level of balance on the rear leg.

When I started "getting it" BH, and compared the windup to my FH windup, it was very apparent how much more balanced and control I felt on my rear leg in FH because I pitched all those years. I could feel how that balance and control = leverage. I knew it would just take a lot of practice to get comfortable balancing on the rear leg BH.

Watch how Simon's elbow remains somewhat flexed through the transition. Your elbow is fully extended in the backswing. Makes me think you are not a lumberjack...

 

[Lumberjack504]

You need to get upright balanced on your rear leg in the stride, so you can accelerate off it. You are just going around the rear leg at one speed. I'd recommend working on standstill/Hershyzer and windup and stride exactly like a pitcher does, but plant closed. Note how pitchers start upright and windup really slow and super balanced on rear leg and then squat and push butt targetward. You need to feel that level of balance on the rear leg.

When I started "getting it" BH, and compared the windup to my FH windup, it was very apparent how much more balanced and control I felt on my rear leg in FH because I pitched all those years. I could feel how that balance and control = leverage. I knew it would just take a lot of practice to get comfortable balancing on the rear leg BH.

Watch how Simon's elbow remains somewhat flexed through the transition. Your elbow is fully extended in the backswing. Makes me think you are not a lumberjack...

Yeah I see what you mean about going around it. Would you say kick the ball would help with this as well?

As far as the elbow goes - is this a byproduct of trying to place or jerk the disc into the backswing instead of moving around it?

I like SC's axe analogy. Can we translate his analogy using a hammer to suit or needs/goals?

 

[slowplastic]

As far as the elbow goes - is this a byproduct of trying to place or jerk the disc into the backswing instead of moving around it?

For me, it happens when thinking about "reaching back" or getting the disc away in the backswing, compared to keeping the arm/shoulder as a unit with your torso and using the torso to turn back the elbow, with the disc part of the overall system.

 

[Lumberjack504]

For me, it happens when thinking about "reaching back" or getting the disc away in the backswing, compared to keeping the arm/shoulder as a unit with your torso and using the torso to turn back the elbow, with the disc part of the overall system.

Yeah, you can really see it here with Drew Gibson how he starts turning back with the elbow still bent, then it unfolds as he moves his body forward from the disc, instead of pushing the disc back from his body.

https://makeagif.com/i/hUY0QD

 

[sidewinder22]

Yeah I see what you mean about going around it. Would you say kick the ball would help with this as well?

As far as the elbow goes - is this a byproduct of trying to place or jerk the disc into the backswing instead of moving around it?

I like SC's axe analogy. Can we translate his analogy using a hammer to suit or needs/goals?

Yep.
Yep. Lost connection.
Yep. There is no difference between hammering a nail and cutting a tree other than one has a blunt head and one has a sharp head.

 

[NathanNoodleArm]

There is no difference between hammering a nail and cutting a tree other than one has a blunt head and one has a sharp head.

Makes me think you are not a lumberjack...

I think you're on to something.

 

[Lumberjack504]

Kick the ball:



X step:

Nothing new here, looks like I'm still trying to step/lead with the foot instead of sling it.

 

[slowplastic]

Your plant stride is still diagonal to the left a couple inches. Try striding so in line with the right leg that it almost feels like you're crossing back into your left foot's path, but while turning back so you can land toes first then heel. I am not in any way advising to open up or actually stride rightward, but it just may feel right or backwards compared to what you've been doing. I'm still experimenting with this so I am not 100% sure what to aim for, but this has been helping keep my body out of the way and also to turn back as a unit.

 

[sidewinder22]

You are not really turning your pelvis or butt to target in your backswing. Your butt should lead over the ball before you kick it, so all your mass/weight is behind the kick. You are kind of just extending the leg, instead of swinging the leg together with the pelvis(weight) from the rear hip/leg.

Note your rear knee is too bent in setup, and front knee is too bent in swing and foot is not turned back. Note how I'm more stacked up on the rear leg and front leg is really swung back and extended like a pitcher with heel almost facing target.

 

[slowplastic]

^Setup your swing on the front leg, like one leg drill. I know SW has said this in many threads, but it really helped me. Being over the front foot how you should be, makes it so when you turn into the rear leg you get the butt wipe drill/turn back so you actually clear the hips in the backswing. If you are squatted over the rear foot you turn into the leg but can't actually clear the hips. For me just setting up on top of the front foot put me in a much better position over the rear leg when I turned back. Also then I realized where I should be aiming to get to on the front foot again in the plant, so I am less likely to stride diagonally left as I mentioned in my previous post.

 

[sidewinder22]

^Setup your swing on the front leg, like one leg drill.

Kick the Can actually needs to be setup on the rear leg because your goal is swinging the front leg.

 

[HyzerUniBomber]

I'm gonna word salad this up and hopefully something pops out that makes some sense, and if it doesn't - then you get what you paid for!! ;-)

I think Lumberjack is setting up for a swedish style throw and because of that, I'd approach your thinking about the brace differently.



The video above was just for my friend travis to help him see the timing differences and the consequence of having it even a little off. I didn't go through and do any audio because it was really just a video to show him.

When you do a full wind-mill, it forces you to feel:

1. Being upright as you start the backswing (and have the disc vertical)
2. the momentum of the backswing should stay tethered to the throw.
3. How easy it is to get your power from the down shift (tall with disc over head, to crushing can).
4. Brace should catch momentum (1:20) so that you're almost left pogo sticking on your front foot.

This drill should show you how connected the momentum is.

Each action:
Disc over head, body vertical and tall
Disc back, plant foot forward
Shoulders turn and carry that momentum as one system forward, completely supported on the front side.

I'll try to get a video shortly, but I was throwing a wraith damn near 400' with no x-step just doing the windmill. It really perfects the timing and forces you to see what a down shift feels like and you can do it without throwing a disc, just make sure your 100% weighted on back foot, disc straight above your head - do the equal and opposite foot stride + backswing, fully crush the can and downshift the weight with the whip coming forward.

It should feel like there's no hitch in your giddyup and have lots of momentum.

Edit: Also, I'm not saying you should throw this way forever, I'm just using this as a drill.

 

[RFrance]

HUB I think this is another good drill. One thing that helped me right away was the position of the disc and the back foot movement starting around 2 - 3 seconds in. I was having trouble getting that comfortable and this helped.

 

[deyo7]

You are not really turning your pelvis or butt to target in your backswing. Your butt should lead over the ball before you kick it, so all your mass/weight is behind the kick. You are kind of just extending the leg, instead of swinging the leg together with the pelvis(weight) from the rear hip/leg.

Note your rear knee is too bent in setup, and front knee is too bent in swing and foot is not turned back. Note how I'm more stacked up on the rear leg and front leg is really swung back and extended like a pitcher with heel almost facing target.

SW, do you lead with butt like that in FH throw too?Or to an extent?

 

[slowplastic]

SW, do you lead with butt like that in FH throw too?Or to an extent?

Definitely similar feel, but may not look as drastic. FH throws start at ~30sec in first video. Note that Paul, and in the second video Ricky, both step into the shot whereas Nate has the more closed crow hop so Nate looks a bit more closed like the pitcher does.

 

[sidewinder22]

SW, do you lead with butt like that in FH throw too?Or to an extent?

Remember drills are meant to exaggerate things, it feels quite similar, but you can't wind up that far back sidearm or submarine and especially with a disc. There is a fundamental difference in balance striding overhand which allows you to more range of motion/longer backswing vs striding underhand/submarine/sidearm which requires quicker/shorter windup to maintain balance. In disc golf overhand is really only good for BH/FH rollers and Tommy/thumber/scomahawk.

Most everyone struggles with BH stride because they try to swing overhand and really lean back and end up throwing downward with nose up compensation aka airbounce/stall. Instead of swinging underhand and throwing upward with nose down aka distance/glide.

Throwing overhand the front foot strides way out around the rear foot to counter balance(dynamically upright) any backward tilt so you can sling the torso/shoulder/arm all over the top front hip and foot/downward.

Throwing more underhand the front foot strides hanging low and close to rear foot to counter balance(dynamically upright) so you can sling the torso/shoulder/arm more sideways across the front hip and foot or more from underneath the front hip and foot/upward.

Overhander stride drill would be striding Around the the Can and then Stomp the Can into the plant.

Underhander stride drill is to Kick the Can, the stride is more upright with both feet more underneath the head and kick swings upward and then Crush the Can into the plant.

With disc golf you can't really wind up/shift as much weight as much because you should be concerned about keeping the disc on plane, whereas a throwing ball you have no plane to care about.

 

[deyo7]

Remember drills are meant to exaggerate things, it feels quite similar, but you can't wind up that far back sidearm or submarine and especially with a disc. There is a fundamental difference in balance striding overhand which allows you to more range of motion/longer backswing vs striding underhand/submarine/sidearm which requires quicker/shorter windup to maintain balance. In disc golf overhand is really only good for BH/FH rollers and Tommy/thumber/scomahawk.

Most everyone struggles with BH stride because they try to swing overhand and really lean back and end up throwing downward with nose up compensation aka airbounce/stall. Instead of swinging underhand and throwing upward with nose down aka distance/glide.

Throwing overhand the front foot strides way out around the rear foot to counter balance(dynamically upright) any backward tilt so you can sling the torso/shoulder/arm all over the top front hip and foot/downward.

Throwing more underhand the front foot strides hanging low and close to rear foot to counter balance(dynamically upright) so you can sling the torso/shoulder/arm more sideways across the front hip and foot or more from underneath the front hip and foot/upward.

Overhander stride drill would be striding Around the the Can and then Stomp the Can into the plant.

Underhander stride drill is to Kick the Can, the stride is more upright with both feet more underneath the head and kick swings upward and then Crush the Can into the plant.

With disc golf you can't really wind up/shift as much weight as much because you should be concerned about keeping the disc on plane, whereas a throwing ball you have no plane to care about.

Thank you, makes sense and helpful.

 

[Lumberjack504]

I think I have a weird scooping/dipping thing going on in the final part of my swing once the elbow starts unhinging and I'm not sure how to fix it or what exactly is going on. Looks like my shoulder is trying to move the upper arm unit forward as well when I believe it should stay more rigid? Anyways I think it leads to shots coming out higher and with more hyzer than intended.

Hopefully you can see what I mean in this gif.