Form Check/update

[Lumberjack504]

Tried a couple things real quick out back...

1. Just tried to delay the backswing a bit and tried working around the disc more instead of thrusting it back. Need to get disc closer to center chest / more elbow forward it looks like.

2 and 3 are a couple first dry runs of a pump. Never really done it before so of course they look a bit jerky and lack confidence.

1.


2. McBeth inspired


3. More Doss-esque

 

[slowplastic]

In the third video, for example immediately when the video starts look at how naturally you move the disc with the extended arm. Then once the shot routine starts, you begin placing the disc where you want, rather than keeping that natural flow with connection through the shoulder, through the arm, to the disc.

 

[HyzerUniBomber]

Key point to watch on video review: your head should be lowering and moving forward simultaneously. It's easy to end up with a lower then a forward move ( especially noticeable on 3rd ).

You're delaying nicely though, now just get 100 reps in and do it nice and easy.

 

[sidewinder22]

Your foot is leading your stride as you are leaning back with your knees knocked in together. Need your butt needs to lead the stride and your feet and knees to separate more together extended. Keep your front leg straight striding, push off it extended fully and then let it hang from the hip, and stay extended upright on the rear leg to allow the front leg to hang underneath and swing it forward. You are picking up your front foot/leg to stride it forward and at that point all your momentum is lost, stuck back.

 

[Lumberjack504]

Your foot is leading your stride as you are leaning back with your knees knocked in together. Need your butt needs to lead the stride and your feet and knees to separate more together extended. Keep your front leg straight striding, push off it extended fully and then let it hang from the hip, and stay extended upright on the rear leg to allow the front leg to hang underneath and swing it forward. You are picking up your front foot/leg to stride it forward and at that point all your momentum is lost, stuck back.

Any thoughts on the pump attempts, or does it not really matter until I stride butt first, more leg neutral?

 

[sidewinder22]

Any thoughts on the pump attempts, or does it not really matter until I stride butt first, more leg neutral?

You start "reaching back" too early and leaning back off balance behind/outside your rear foot. Need to leverage your whole swing forward balanced. I'd recommend keeping your elbow straight in the backswing and doing a real pendulum inside your feet. You are reaching back like the disc weighs nothing, pretend its heavy, give it heavy pulled taut momentum.

Simple pendulum taut back and forth and balanced:

 

[Lumberjack504]

You start "reaching back" too early and leaning back off balance behind/outside your rear foot. Need to leverage your whole swing forward balanced. I'd recommend keeping your elbow straight in the backswing and doing a real pendulum inside your feet. You are reaching back like the disc weighs nothing, pretend its heavy, give it heavy pulled taut momentum.



Simple pendulum taut back and forth and balanced:

Awesome markups. Much appreciated


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[Lumberjack504]

You start "reaching back" too early and leaning back off balance behind/outside your rear foot. Need to leverage your whole swing forward balanced. I'd recommend keeping your elbow straight in the backswing and doing a real pendulum inside your feet. You are reaching back like the disc weighs nothing, pretend its heavy, give it heavy pulled taut momentum.

Simple pendulum taut back and forth and balanced:

Quick question regarding the hop:

Would you say that the rear leg should hang neutral while airborne, and catch your weight on the rear side coming down from the hop, just as you should on the front side? I'm pretty sure I've heard you say the rear should mirror the front re: footwork, so I'm believing that this is on the right track.

I think I'm trying to be too active with the rear leg coming down from the hop, and striding it forward too long and too horizontally out of the hop instead of letting it hang. I suspect that this may contribute somewhat to my spine being tilted back outside of my rear foot as you pointed out. Just trying it indoors, letting it hang makes more sense, and feels a lot easier to get off the rear side and the shift feels a little more sudden.

 

[sidewinder22]

Quick question regarding the hop:

Would you say that the rear leg should hang neutral while airborne, and catch your weight on the rear side coming down from the hop, just as you should on the front side? I'm pretty sure I've heard you say the rear should mirror the front re: footwork, so I'm believing that this is on the right track.

I think I'm trying to be too active with the rear leg coming down from the hop, and striding it forward too long and too horizontally out of the hop instead of letting it hang. I suspect that this may contribute somewhat to my spine being tilted back outside of my rear foot as you pointed out. Just trying it indoors, letting it hang makes more sense, and feels a lot easier to get off the rear side and the shift feels a little more sudden.

In a standstill everything is mirrored, but slightly different in x-step, but yep, that is the rear foot part of Kick the Can. You should basically be gliding over the rear foot like a ballerina dance move and falling upright leveraged from behind you onto the plant leg to pirouette. If you "try to shift your weight back" in an x-step you will lose your balance and rhythm and flow of momentum. Your weight is already "back" in an x-step, need to maintain forward balance and leverage and momentum into the plant.

 

[Lumberjack504]

In a standstill everything is mirrored, but slightly different in x-step, but yep, that is the rear foot part of Kick the Can. You should basically be gliding over the rear foot like a ballerina dance move and falling upright leveraged from behind you onto the plant leg to pirouette. If you "try to shift your weight back" in an x-step you will lose your balance and rhythm and flow of momentum. Your weight is already "back" in an x-step, need to maintain forward balance and leverage and momentum into the plant.

Thanks for the clarification. I also think I'm trying to "reachback" with my arm and shoulders instead of turn back at the hips into the backswing.

 

[Lumberjack504]

Here's a shot from today, all the same issues: most ovbious to me is turning back too early and not getting elbow forward. Also foot leading the stride. I see the knee snap thing and my knee feels it. So I wanna get that fixed first and foremost. Any ideas how to prioritize drills/field practice?

 

[UhhNegative]

Looks to me like you are coming out of compression into the ground too early. It's like you are resisting or not trusting your weight to compress into the ground and then swinging primarily with the upper body. It looks good when your center of gravity rises during the x-step, but then you aren't really using that to your advantage and you are slowly letting the weight down by staying on the rear toes too long. Like you are gently letting your weight onto the front foot by using your rear calf muscles to slowly lower yourself. Instead you want to just trust that weight falling onto your braced front side. It will probably feel more "impactful". The kick the can drill might give you that feeling.

 

[Lumberjack504]

Looks to me like you are coming out of compression into the ground too early. It's like you are resisting or not trusting your weight to compress into the ground and then swinging primarily with the upper body. It looks good when your center of gravity rises during the x-step, but then you aren't really using that to your advantage and you are slowly letting the weight down by staying on the rear toes too long. Like you are gently letting your weight onto the front foot by using your rear calf muscles to slowly lower yourself. Instead you want to just trust that weight falling onto your braced front side. It will probably feel more "impactful". The kick the can drill might give you that feeling.

Thanks for the post. I actually really agree and that's kind of what I'm feeling, more what I'm seeing. Like I'm tentative on the front side. My plan was to film myself doing standstill kick the can one step throws. I really think they'll help with the front leg shift and balance.



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[sidewinder22]

Agree with UN. You aren't settling your weight into the plant, you are jumping/extending before your weight actually gets there to crush the can. Just do what SC does without swinging through, just settle your weight on the plant and hold that position for a few seconds or minutes even and then swing.

 

[billyjacko]

I think it would really help you to think about the hit point outside away from you. Do the battering ram with something heavy the way HUB does it in his latest video (where he's holding the bench and swinging it). Then think of that in terms of how he says re-directing the weight (windmill drill as well.) Then, take a hammer and one hand it thinking of these two concepts. Sometimes it helps to try to think of the end point instead of the individual steps to get there.

 

[Lumberjack504]

I think it would really help you to think about the hit point outside away from you. Do the battering ram with something heavy the way HUB does it in his latest video (where he's holding the bench and swinging it). Then think of that in terms of how he says re-directing the weight (windmill drill as well.) Then, take a hammer and one hand it thinking of these two concepts. Sometimes it helps to try to think of the end point instead of the individual steps to get there.

Yeah thanks man. I agree. I really need a paradigm shift in the way I approach slinging a disc. My last round was abysmal, just yanking shots over and finding zero consistency. Also the plant knee is bothering me so I'm taking some time off.

I'm gonna come back and try to toss hammers. Also may play with the lunchbox/power pocket thing rhatton and I were talking about a while back. My shoulder collapses so much that, I believe, if I don't fix it, I'll never find consistency. One day I'll lace a roc 300, the next day I'll burn it into the woods. It's frustrating to say the least.



When I try this at home, I can actually feel the weight of the disc as the lower arm just hinges in and out.

 

[slowplastic]

Try swinging a golf club, either righty or lefty. Just whatever way it feels good to you.

Notice how as the club goes up, there's a certain time you plant/drop down onto the plant to start the downswing. This just happens at the top of the backswing...and if you pay attention to it...the club is likely still slightly on the way up/into the transition as you drop the body down.

When you have a long lever like a golf club and you're standing in place, in a sport where it's "acceptable" to have a narrow stance...this is all very natural.

When going to backhand a disc it's so hard to not just have the arm back there, then start everything forward at the same time. I think this is a big reason for upper arm collapse and weird things like that. Try to experiment to get that same feel, where your arm is the backswing and you feel like you can just drop down to the plant, then the arm will come with you.

In your last slow mo video, you can see how your backswing is complete while the front foot isn't even grazing the ground with the toes. The pro's have their backswing still at the transition while they come down. It takes trust to let the arm be the backswing with weight and drop down when it feels right...then have the arm/torso come with you. So try to feel it with another motion or another sport that you are comfortable with, then make your arm that lever with weight.

 

[Lumberjack504]

Try swinging a golf club, either righty or lefty. Just whatever way it feels good to you.

Notice how as the club goes up, there's a certain time you plant/drop down onto the plant to start the downswing. This just happens at the top of the backswing...and if you pay attention to it...the club is likely still slightly on the way up/into the transition as you drop the body down.

When you have a long lever like a golf club and you're standing in place, in a sport where it's "acceptable" to have a narrow stance...this is all very natural.

When going to backhand a disc it's so hard to not just have the arm back there, then start everything forward at the same time. I think this is a big reason for upper arm collapse and weird things like that. Try to experiment to get that same feel, where your arm is the backswing and you feel like you can just drop down to the plant, then the arm will come with you.

In your last slow mo video, you can see how your backswing is complete while the front foot isn't even grazing the ground with the toes. The pro's have their backswing still at the transition while they come down. It takes trust to let the arm be the backswing with weight and drop down when it feels right...then have the arm/torso come with you. So try to feel it with another motion or another sport that you are comfortable with, then make your arm that lever with weight.

Yeah I played third base/outfield in high school. Of course I swung righty. I always had decent line drive/gap power. Even now when I try swinging lefty with a bat, the whole hips going first/dropping into the plant and all of that seems intuitive/natural, but a disc is so light, it's so easy to want to crank on it with the upper body. I like the idea of the arm being the weight and not the disc. Interesting

 

[slowplastic]

Yeah I played third base/outfield in high school. Of course I swung righty. I always had decent line drive/gap power. Even now when I try swinging lefty with a bat, the whole hips going first/dropping into the plant and all of that seems intuitive/natural, but a disc is so light, it's so easy to want to crank on it with the upper body. I like the idea of the arm being the weight and not the disc. Interesting

Yeah same with righty baseball swing, and I'm also a line drive hitter. Typically line drive pull hitter like 20-30 degrees off the line.

With the bat starting upright/balanced I don't feel that same backswing left alone feeling as drastically as I do if I swing the bat back like on a golf backswing. The drop/transition is the same, but it's not as obvious when you start with your elbows up and holding the bat in balance.

Try the lefty baseball swing position with nothing in your hands. You can feel your upper arm/elbow left behind as you drop. Then keep focusing on that feeling with how your upper arm stays behind. Then just move your arm out and out more as if it were in a disc golf backswing. Anyways...you know the feeling from baseball so try some different methods to recreate it without the bat in your hands. It takes a weird trust/commitment to leave the arm behind like that and believe it won't collapse, like you're committing to the shot before throwing...but that's what it is.

 

[Lumberjack504]

Back with a screenshot and a question - in all the footage I ever see of myself, I always see my shoulder plane not level, my leading shoulder always seems to be tilted up. Any ideas what could be causing this? I imagine it's some posture/balance issue, or trying to muscle the disc, but I suspect it causes me to throw higher trajectories than I intend to...a lot.

Footage of said throw:
I tried a pre-pump and tried to focus more on bringing the disc into my center chest vs. "pulling" - I like the elbow forward position I got into, but that's about it. Did hit the disc pretty good though, but it's nowhere near repeatable.



I may toss some hammers soon and post vids. Think it will be helpful.