FPO putting

[Jolt]

It seems you don't play with too many decent female disc golfers. I think trying to generalize thinking, based on gender, is a kind of silly venture.

I get to play with a few good female golfers and they, very much, think they are going to make the same putts, that I think I am going to make. If fact, having played several games and sports with females...I don't find their approach to those games much different at all. A couple had superior mental approaches to their sports.

I know a few elite female players in other sports that have an extrem "killer instinct" maybe even more than male pros.

But still i struggle to understand why a few of the top 10 FPO discgolfers has such bad putting stats.
But i DO think this is going to change, in 5y the top FPO players are going to be in the +80% or more to have a chance to win....More money and more players that starts to play at an young age.

It just SO many throws to be gained by a really good putter in the FPO field. . .Missy had a good year much thanks to her putt. . .the game is at a point were you can have a week part of the game and still do well. . i don´t that will be the case in 5y time

 

[trashmonster1985]

It seems you don't play with too many decent female disc golfers. I think trying to generalize thinking, based on gender, is a kind of silly venture.

I get to play with a few good female golfers and they, very much, think they are going to make the same putts, that I think I am going to make. If fact, having played several games and sports with females...I don't find their approach to those games much different at all. A couple had superior mental approaches to their sports.

Hmmm, not that I disagree with you per se, but I do agree that there could be a mental part of it that gives men an edge in most physical activities.
I was a snowboard/ski instructor for many years. One of the biggest differences between men and women that I discovered was not just physical, but there was a mental difference.
Men tended to approach snowboarding with the idea of going down the hill, basically as fast as possible. And the mentality is, I'm going to get down thus run without falling.
Women see the same hill, and they think, "I don't want to run in to that person, and I don't want to get going too fast. I don't want to fall," and so on.
This was not just my observation, the way you teach skiing to men and women is different, and we were trained to keep these differences in mind.
Though not everyone is the same, generalizations do typically have some grain of truth.

 

[araytx]

If there's anyone on tour that needs to get out of their own head..., It's the current World Champion.:wall:

FTFY

I don't necessarily buy the distance/strength thing either. But, something doesn't seem right about the putting stats you mention. I didn't look them up, but even if true, I have to wonder if it's because often on the FPO side, a par 3 will be drive, layup, tap in, whereas on the MPO side it is often drive, C2 or C1 putt. Meaning the average C1X putt may be quite a bit farther on the MPO side. Not sure if that data is available, but would be interesting to look at if it is.

If there is a clear difference in MPO vs FPO putting, (again, I have not looked at any stats), and it is not just a physical strength thing (I don't think it is, not for C1X), other possibilities include (just tossing out ideas here) that men may be better able to deal with the pressure and/or have better long term stamina than women (over 2-4 hour rounds and 3-4 rounds in 3-4 days--even if just in the typical muscles used in putting).

I also wonder how much more time the 'average' top 50 MPO player spends on practice, conditioning, etc during the season and each week vs the average top 50 FPO player. Maybe the answer is none, but with many more MPO players able to financially devote their full time to disc golf vs the FPO field (which is changing recently), it seems reasonable that men might simply practice putting more overall. Being a muscle memory activity, this would tend to lead to better results.

Both Ohn and Heather should actually throw a lot farther than what they currently do. They both have subpar backhand form, Ohn especially, I just watched some coverage of her from the Arizona tournament and remember thinking that if she got a swing coach to fix her form she could probably throw A LOT farther. I also think neither one of those two is trying to throw super far in terms of physical effort as well, they purposely are throwing smooth and trying to stay on the fairway.

You also have to remember the ladies don't run putts anywhere near what the men do so those stats are somewhat apples to oranges, meaning Ohn and Heather often have tap ins after misses while the MPO field have long comebacks.

Which brings us to Paige. I don't care what the stats say, when it's game time Paige is the best FPO putter in the field. Also the biggest arm, which is no surprise given she's the strongest competitor. Again, the stats will never be favorable for her because she putts like MPO running everything and always has long comebacks. Both Ohn and Heather play very conservatively, which also boosts their C1X % because they generally don't miss long.

C1X does not include tap-ins. And if they were playing as "conservatively" as you say, they'd have even MORE tap-ins (under 11 feet).

 

[Jolt]

Yes Cat IS the current World Champion. . .AND she´s 43rd in the world at C1x at 63% in 2021

The fact that those two things are tru. . .in kind of strange

 

[Jolt]

PUTTING - CIRCLE 1X
63.3%
457 of 722 putts

That´s 265 missed putts. . many strokes to get back

 

[glassila]

PUTTING - CIRCLE 1X
63.3%
457 of 722 putts

That´s 265 missed putts. . many strokes to get back


That's an eyepopping number!

If she upped her percentage to 75% that's 84 strokes. She played in 31 tournaments so 2.7 strokes per tournament. Picking up nearly 3 strokes per event probably nets her $5,000 over the year. (pure guess on my part)
I don't think 75% is unreasonable.

 

[autocrosscrx]

Yes Cat IS the current World Champion. . .AND she´s 43rd in the world at C1x at 63% in 2021

The fact that those two things are tru. . .in kind of strange

She was 30th at Worlds in C1X. She dominated tee to green and Paige and Tattar were even worse C1X.

 

[biscoe]

Picking up nearly 3 strokes per event probably nets her $5,000 over the year. (pure guess on my part)

Almost $10k by quick count ignoring ties for the most part.

 

[txmxer]

This may not be a popular opinion, but my guess is most of the guys posting in this thread are not good putters and miss short putts on a regular basis.

I admit my putting has been a real downer for a while. This spring I started getting a rhythm, then it all seemed to fade.

But I'm not paid to entertain people with my DG performance.

My original statement wasn't intended to demean the FPO, more an observation/opinion.

I want to see people play great frolf. I believe that c1x performance is hurting FPO ratings.

 

[Dingus]

I don't think 75% is unreasonable.

75% of 15 footers is not unreasonable at all. 75% of 30 footers would be a tall order. One of the weaknesses of the C1X stat is that a 15' putt is nothing like a 30' putt. I would say that a 30' putt has more in common with a 45' putt than a 15' putt.

Putting is much harder than anyone online gives it credit for. It is almost like the weakling's 400' drive claim. If you are too fat/weak/old to make a credible claim to drive 400' you just brag about your 85% C1X and "incredible scrambling".

 

[Jolt]

I think Cat was first in hitting C1 of the tee, so many of her C1x might have been just inside the circle

 

[autocrosscrx]

I think Cat was first in hitting C1 of the tee, so many of her C1x might have been just inside the circle

Maybe. But I don't think that spread is strong enough to discredit any of the numbers. You can watch the footage and you'll see Heather and Ohn and Missy Gannon dunking 30 footers whether it is for birdie or par or bogey... and you occasionally see Cat missing 12 footers with her bag on her back.

C1X numbers aren't as comprehensive as we'd like, but I think they are good enough to tell the story. We watch coverage and notice trends like Paige and Paul and Calvin not putting as well as they have in the past and the stats show their numbers are down. Or we see people like Ohn and Corey Ellis making putts from everywhere and they are at the top.

 

[oldmandiscer]

Maybe. But I don't think that spread is strong enough to discredit any of the numbers. You can watch the footage and you'll see Heather and Ohn and Missy Gannon dunking 30 footers whether it is for birdie or par or bogey... and you occasionally see Cat missing 12 footers with her bag on her back.

C1X numbers aren't as comprehensive as we'd like, but I think they are good enough to tell the story. We watch coverage and notice trends like Paige and Paul and Calvin not putting as well as they have in the past and the stats show their numbers are down. Or we see people like Ohn and Corey Ellis making putts from everywhere and they are at the top.

I think McBeth was still 3rd in C2 though. He's not as dominant as he was in like 2015 though, I think that year he was obviously the best putter as he won every event he entered pretty much. I wouldn't count him out.

Calvin tends to miss a little short or low, but he's on line. He just needs to be a little more aggressive. I would watch out for him this year. I think he gets it going.

 

[txmxer]

Maybe. But I don't think that spread is strong enough to discredit any of the numbers. You can watch the footage and you'll see Heather and Ohn and Missy Gannon dunking 30 footers whether it is for birdie or par or bogey... and you occasionally see Cat missing 12 footers with her bag on her back.

C1X numbers aren't as comprehensive as we'd like, but I think they are good enough to tell the story. We watch coverage and notice trends like Paige and Paul and Calvin not putting as well as they have in the past and the stats show their numbers are down. Or we see people like Ohn and Corey Ellis making putts from everywhere and they are at the top.

Well said. The stats align with observation.

 

[glassila]

75% of 15 footers is not unreasonable at all. 75% of 30 footers would be a tall order. One of the weaknesses of the C1X stat is that a 15' putt is nothing like a 30' putt. I would say that a 30' putt has more in common with a 45' putt than a 15' putt.

Putting is much harder than anyone online gives it credit for. It is almost like the weakling's 400' drive claim. If you are too fat/weak/old to make a credible claim to drive 400' you just brag about your 85% C1X and "incredible scrambling".

I meant 75% for all putts within the circle.
To get to 75% for C1X I would think she would need to be +90% inside of 20 feet, 75% from 20-25 feet and 60% from 25-30 feet. (just estimations on my part)

If she hit 75% of her 30 footers she probably would have won 25 tournaments.

 

[foxdawg10]

I admit my putting has been a real downer for a while. This spring I started getting a rhythm, then it all seemed to fade.

But I'm not paid to entertain people with my DG performance.

My original statement wasn't intended to demean the FPO, more an observation/opinion.

I want to see people play great frolf. I believe that c1x performance is hurting FPO ratings.

Lol @ frolf.

I personally think last season was highly entertaining on both the MPO and FPO side. Close finishes, different players in the mix each week, all good stuff. Plus there is more and more content being put out in the off season if entertainment is what you are looking for.

I'm ok with FPO and MPO games being different. It is fun watching Eagle mash 700 foot drives, but I think most of us can relate more to the FPO side of the game in terms of distance and putting percentage.

 

[trashmonster1985]

...I think most of us can relate more to the FPO side of the game in terms of distance and putting percentage.

I hear that said a lot. But I'm more interested in seeing the best of the best. I like NBA, I've never seen a WNBA game.
No offense to women, but I want to see what is possible in frolf, not what any average guy can do at a local league. Besides Paige Pierce women's golf is just not interesting in my opinion.

 

[foxdawg10]

I hear that said a lot. But I'm more interested in seeing the best of the best. I like NBA, I've never seen a WNBA game.
No offense to women, but I want to see what is possible in frolf, not what any average guy can do at a local league. Besides Paige Pierce women's golf is just not interesting in my opinion.

I think it is a valid comparison. How many of us are basketball players, even at a recreational level. Or football players? So it is easy for us to watch the pros for entertainment purposes and feel comfortable criticizing the players, coaches,announcers, etc.

All of us here are disc golf players. I agree is is fun and entertaining to watch what is possible. Sure we watch for entertainment, but we also play the exact same game.

But, how can you criticize someone who does what you do, only they do it better, AND they have found a way to do it for a living? i think if James Conrad didn't make THE shot, we would be talking about Catrina Allen's 2nd shot on hole 18 at the Fort in final round at the Worlds. Or Tattar's 50 foot almost blind uphill putt on hole 17 in the final round at Great Lakes Open. Or Missy Gannon's first win at the Des Moines Challenge? Her putting was lights out. This year was very entertaining on both sides.

I agree it is frustrating to watch Catrina Allen miss putts with the bag on her shoulder sometimes. But I disagree that the local average guy can do what is done at the higher levels of FPO. You can probably go deep into the MPO field and make the exact same argument - local guys can likely perform as well as the bottom half of most pro level fields.

 

[glassila]

Anyone care to give their theory on why Catrina sometimes putts with her bag on her shoulder (and I don't mean tap-ins).

 

[ejvogie]

When I've seen it, it's been frustration from a missed 25' putt.

In fairness, I haven't seen much of it